My responce to a fellow Blogger
Author : James
http://mymorningmeditations.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/squiggly-line.jpg&h=284
[Edited for space & bible passages and my comments added for clarity by PJM]
[QUOTE] … but we renewed our conversation last Wednesday evening. but we did revisit Calvin and his five points (http://www.calvinistcorner.com/tulip.htm) ,** [inserted below] otherwise known as “TULIP:”
* Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)
* Unconditional Election
* Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)
* Irresistible Grace
* Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)
I have to admit, Romans 9:13-24 is a devastating argument and one that I can’t ignore. The last time this came up in our conversations, I blogged about it and came to the uneasy peace that God’s mercy outweighs His justice. and He desires that none should die, but all live in Christ.[/QUOTE]
Added by PJM: Rom.9: 13-24 “As it is written: Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated. [14] What shall we say then? Is there injustice with God? God forbid. [15] For he saith to Moses: I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy; and I will shew mercy to whom I will shew mercy. [16] So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. [17] For the scripture saith to Pharao: To this purpose have I raised thee, that I may shew my power in thee, and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth. [18] Therefore he hath mercy on whom he will; and whom he will, he hardeneth. [19] Thou wilt say therefore to me: Why doth he then find fault? for who resisteth his will? [20] O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it: Why hast thou made me thus? [21] Or hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump, to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? [22] What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath, fitted for destruction, [23] That he might shew the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he hath prepared unto glory? [24] Even us, whom also he hath called, nor only of the Jews, but also of the Gentiles
Haydock’s Catholic Commentary on verses 16, 17 & 18
“[16] Not of him that willeth: That is, by any power or strength of his own, abstracting from the grace of God. [17] To this purpose: Not that God made him on purpose that he should sin, and so be damned; but foreseeing his obstinacy in sin, and the abuse of his own free will, he raised him up to be a mighty king, to make a more remarkable example of him: and that his power might be better known, and his justice in punishing him, published throughout the earth. [18] He hardeneth: Not by being the cause or author of his sin, but by withholding his grace, and so leaving him in his sin, in punishment of his past demerits” [QUOTE]
Calvinism, and for that matter; all non-Catholic- Christian faiths can only exist with a sandy foundation because the entire Bible is either not used or not correctly understood. There is but One Infallible rule for right Understanding of God’s divinely Inspired Word: 2nd. Timothy 3:16-17 “
All scripture, [is] inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice, That the man of God may be perfect, furnished to every good work.”
THE one INFALLIBE Bible-rule “Never-ever; Can, may or DOES one verse; passage or Teaching make void; invalidate or override another verse, passage or teaching.”
Such, even as a possibility would render the bible useless for learning ones faith. Amen!
A quote from the Navarre Bible: Romans chapter 11; 33-36
“The correct attitude of man to the designs of God is one of humility. This will lead him to realize that the mysteries of God, which are intrinsically clear, seem obscure to us, simply because our minds are limited. Therefore as Fray Luis de Granada reminds us, we must avoid saying that something cannot be because we cannot understand it … for what is more in conformity with reason than to think in the highest way of him who is the All-High and to attribute to him the highest and best nature our mind can conceive.” [page 140]
** The Five Points of Calvinism
“There are two mains camps of theology within Christianity in America today: Arminianism and Calvinism. Calvinism is a system of biblical interpretation taught by John Calvin. Calvin lived in France in the 1500’s at the time of Martin Luther who sparked the Reformation”
Quoted FROM Father Hardon’s Catholic Dictionary
http://www.therealpresence.org/cgi-bin/getdefinition.pl
ARMINIANISM.
Doctrine held by certain Calvinists in the Netherlands in the seventeenth century. Originally taught by the Dutch Reformed theologian Jacobus Arminius (1560-1609). His followers were called Remonstrants. They opposed Calvin’s teaching that grace benefits only the elect, that Christ died for the elect only, and, in general, his doctrine of selective salvation and absolute predestination, independent of human merit. Condemned by the Reformed Synod of Dort (1618-19), it paved the way for permanently dividing the followers of Calvin (1509-64) and the churches derived from the theory of predestination.
CALVINISM. “The religious system introduced by John Calvin (1509-64), French reformer, in opposition to the doctrine of the Catholic Church on the meaning of humanity’s predestination. In the Calvinist system, as a result of Adam’s fall, man has no longer any internal freedom of the will; he is a slave of God. Everyone is eternally predestined, either for heaven or for hell, absolutely independent of his personal efforts. Consequently the elect cannot be lost. The basic principles of Calvinism are set forth in the Institutes of the Christian Religion, where Calvin argues that, since God is absolutely infinite, he is the only real agent in the universe and creatures are merely his instruments”
“The system of Calvinism adheres to a very high view of scripture and seeks to derive its theological formulations based solely on God’s word.
It focuses on God’s sovereignty, stating that God is able and willing by virtue of his omniscience, omnipresence, and omnipotence, to do whatever He desires with His creation. It also maintains that within the Bible are the following teachings: That God, by His sovereign grace predestines people into salvation; that Jesus died only for those predestined; that God regenerates the individual where he is then able and wants to choose God; and that it is impossible for those who are redeemed to lose their salvation.”
Arminianism, on the other hand, maintains that God predestined, but not in an absolute sense. Rather, He looked into the future to see who would pick him and then He chose them. Jesus died for all peoples’ sins who have ever lived and ever will live, not just the Christians. Each person is the one who decides if he wants to be saved or not. And finally, it is possible to lose your salvation (some arminians believe you cannot lose your salvation).”
Basically, Calvinism is known by an acronym: T.U.L.I.P.
“Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)”
These five categories do not comprise Calvinism in totality. They simply represent some of its main points.
Total Depravity: “Sin has affected all parts of man. The heart, emotions, will, mind, and body are all affected by sin. We are completely sinful 2:14). He is at enmity with God (Eph. 2:15). And, is by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3). The Calvinist asks the question, “In light of the scriptures that declare man’s true nature as being utterly lost and incapable, how is it possible for anyone to choose or desire God?” The answer is, “He cannot. Therefore God must predestine.”
Our Catholic response
God can accurately be described as “all Good things perfected”
Simply put this position is a Theological Impossibility. WHY?
Because God is, and God must be, and God must always remain “Perfect.”
1. A “Perfect God” simply is incapable [meaning that it would oppose God’s very Nature, and is therefore impossible.]
2. God because he is the definition of “Goodness” cannot be the cause of “evil”. God can “permit” evil; BUT not be the cause of it. Damnation is evil.
3. Because God is and must be “Perfect” it is not possible for him as the “creator” of man; to grant attributes to his “created” that he will not, and does not permit them to utilize.
4. Of the Billions of “created things” in the Universe; only One; only man can and does emulate our God
. Isaiah 43: 7 & 21 “And every one that calleth upon my name, I have created him for my glory, I have formed him, and made him & This people have I formed for myself, they shall shew forth my praise”
Man alone can emulate God because man alone DOES HAVE a mind, intellect; and freewill permanently attached to our Souls. And similar our God; these are eternal and can be neither killed or die. The critical difference is that God’s attributes are “Infinite,” while mans are “finite.”
5. If as Calvin claims; man is “at enmity with God (Eph. 2:15),” then God would not have Instituted the seven sacraments; notably here, the sacrament of “Reconciliation” to counter and make possible forgiveness of the sinful condition of man. John 20: 19-23 “When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained”
Lev.5: 13 “Thus the priest shall make atonement for him for the sin which he has committed in any one of these things, and he shall be forgiven. And the remainder shall be for the priest, as in the cereal offering.” … Lev.6:7 “and the priest shall make atonement for him before the LORD, and he shall be forgiven for any of the things which one may do and thereby become guilty.”
Lev.16: 8-9, 21 “and Aaron [the priest] shall cast lots upon the two goats, one lot for the LORD and the other lot for Aza’zel. .. And Aaron [the priest] shall present the goat on which the lot fell for the LORD, and offer it as a sin offering; …and Aaron [the priest] shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the people of Israel, and all their transgressions, all their sins; and he shall put them upon the head of the goat, and send him away into the wilderness by the hand of a man who is in readiness.”
6. God, being “perfect” cannot change. He cannot treat us differently than the Jewish peoples in regard to sin and HOW it will be forgiven in [Keeping in mind the Old Testament introduces and leads to the New Covenant; New Testament which is tasked to complete and Perfect it.]
7. The understanding that God “predestines” is anti-biblical and illogical.
Anti-biblical : Ecclesiasticus 15:18 “Before man is life and death, good and evil, that which he shall choose shall be given him” …Mark 8:35 “For whosoever will save his life, shall lose it: and whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel, shall save it” Illogical: Because our perfect God could not freely give to man the attributes needed to freely choose and then not permit man to make full use of them.
“Calvinism also maintains that because of our fallen nature we are born again not by our own will but God’s will (John 1:12-13); God grants that we believe (Phil. 1:29); faith is the work of God (John 6:28-29); God appoints people to believe (Acts 13:48); and God predestines (Eph. 1:1-11; Rom. 8:29; 9:9-23”
.” We are not as sinful as we could be, but we are completely affected by sin.
Our Catholic response
Once again we find Calvin’s position contradicted by the bible.
Rom.5:1-2 “Therefore, since we are justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have obtained access to this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in our hope of sharing the glory of God.”
1 Timothy 6:12 “Fight the good fight of faith: lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art called, and hast confessed a good confession before many witnesses” Verse 20-21 “ O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding the profane novelties of words, and oppositions of knowledge falsely so called. Which some promising, have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.”
Eph.3: 9 to 12 “And to make all men see what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things; that through the church [SINGULAR: meaning THE CATHOLIC Church] the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places. This was according to the eternal purpose which he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have boldness and confidence of access through our faith in him
Matthew 4:4 “Who answered and said: It is written, Not in bread alone doth man live, but in every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God”
Matt.13:9-12 “He who has ears, let him hear.” Then the disciples came and said to him, “Why do you speak to them in parables?” And he answered them, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.” For to him who has will more be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away. “
“The doctrine of Total Depravity is derived from scriptures that reveal human character: Man’s heart is evil (Mark 7:21-23) and sick Jer. 17:9). Man is a slave of sin (Rom. 6:20). He does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12). He cannot understand spiritual things 1 Cor. “
Ecclesiasticus 15:18 “Before man is life and death, good and evil, that which he shall choose shall be given him” … Mark 8:35 “For whosoever will save his life, shall lose it: and whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel, shall save it.” [freely chooses]
Matthew 19:16-17 “And behold one came and said to him: Good master, what good shall I do that I may have life everlasting? Who said to him: Why asketh thou me concerning good? One is good, God. But if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.”
Our Catholic response
“He cannot understand spiritual things 1 Cor.2:14”
Really? So the Apostles did not understand Spiritual Things? John 20:21-22
1st. Cor. 2: 12-14 “Now we have received not the spirit of this world, but the Spirit that is of God; that we may know the things that are given us from God. Which things also we speak, not in the learned words of human wisdom; but in the doctrine of the Spirit, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. [14] But the sensual man perceiveth not these things that are of the Spirit of God; for it is foolishness to him, and he cannot understand, because it is spiritually examined.”
“He does not seek for God Rom. 3:10-12.”
Psalms 68:33 “Let the poor see and rejoice: seek ye God, and your soul shall live.”
1 Chro 22:19 “Give therefore your hearts and your souls, to seek the Lord your God: and arise, and build a sanctuary to the Lord God, that the ark of the covenant of the Lord, and the vessels consecrated to the Lord, may be brought into the house, which is built to the name of the Lord.”Matthew 7:7 “Ask, and it shall be given you: seek, and you shall find: knock, and it shall be opened to you.” Mark 1:37 “And when they had found him, they said to him: All seek for thee.”
Ephesians 6:19 “And for me, that speech may be given me, that I may open my mouth with confidence, to make known the mystery of the gospel” … John 17:8 “Because the words which thou gavest me, I have given to them; and they have received them, and have known in very deed that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. … John 14:16-18 “And I will ask the Father, and he shall give you another Paraclete, that he may abide with you for ever. The spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, nor knoweth him: but you shall know him; because he shall abide with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you orphans, I will come to you. John 20:21-22 “He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost.” … John 14:26 “But the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you.”
Acts Of Apostles 17:27 “That they should seek God, if happily they may feel after him or find him, although he be not far from every one of us”
2 Chronicles 31:21 “In all the service of the ministry of the house of the Lord according to the law and the ceremonies, desiring to seek his God with all his heart, and he did it and prospered”
The First Commandment “
Deuteronomy 11:13 “If then you obey my commandments, which I command you this day, that you love the Lord your God, and serve him with all your heart, and with all your soul: …Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God, with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind, and with thy whole strength.”
Unconditional Election: “God does not base His election on anything He sees in the individual. He chooses the elect according to the kind intention of His will (Eph. 1:4-8; Rom. 9:11) without any consideration of merit within the individual. Nor does God look into the future to see who would pick Him. Also, as some are elected into salvation, others are not (Rom. 9:15, 21).”
Our Catholic response
Why then do the Commandments Exist? Why do the Sacraments exist?
Where is our “Good-God’s” Mercy and sense of Fairness? Both the Sacraments and the Commandments come from God. They therefore must exist for a reason.
Matthew 19:16-17 “And behold one came and said to him: Good master, what good shall I do that I may have life everlasting? Who said to him: Why asketh thou me concerning good? One is good, God. But if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.”
Why then does Christ proclaim that Christian Baptism is essential for salvation?
John 3: 5 “Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” Matthew 28: 18-20 “Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.”… Mark 16:16 “He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be condemned” Mark 1:4 “John was in the desert baptizing, and preaching the baptism of penance, unto remission of sins“ Luke 3:3 “And he came into all the country about the Jordan, preaching the baptism of penance for the remission of sins”
Is God Good and Just? Of course he is. Otherwise he would not be God. Grace in its many forms exist to draw us closer to God, and to help one avoid sin. But sin continues to exist. And Mortal sin 1 John 5:16-17 is seen by God as sufficiently serious to cause a total break in ones relationship with Him. Now “under grace and not only law”; God instituted the only manner of sin forgiveness that He, our Perfect God will accept. The Sacrament of Confession; which flows from the Old Testament practice of using priest [Lev. 4 and 5] to forgive sins with and through God. John 20:21-23 below.
1John.1 Verses 8 to 10: “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” … 1John.5 Verses 16 to 17 “If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal. … John.20 Verses 20 to 23 ” When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained”
Limited Atonement: “Jesus died only for the elect. Though Jesus’ sacrifice was sufficient for all, it was not efficacious for all. Jesus only bore the sins of the elect. Support for this position is drawn from such scriptures as Matt. 26:28 where Jesus died for ‘many’; John 10:11, 15 which say that Jesus died for the sheep (not the goats, per Matt. 25:32-33); John 17:9 where Jesus in prayer interceded for the ones given Him, not those of the entire world; Acts 20:28 and Eph. 5:25-27 which state that the Church was purchased by Christ, not all people; and Isaiah 53:12 which is a prophecy of Jesus’ crucifixion where he would bore the sins of many (not all).”
Our Catholic response
Titus 2: 11-15 “For the grace of God our Savior hath appeared to all men
Instructing us, that, denying ungodliness and worldly desires, we should live soberly, and justly, and godly in this world, Looking for the blessed hope and coming of the glory of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ, Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and might cleanse to himself a people acceptable, a pursuer of good works. These things speak, and exhort and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.”
This position once again denies God his Divinity. It presumes to make our perfect God; very-much imperfect, in order to accommodate Calvin’s absolute need to be different than both the Catholics and Lutheran’s.
This position also denies humanity the absolute rights God instilled at their creation. It is impossible that God would give every human person a mind, intellect and freewill; all permanently attached to our souls; precisely so that we [all of humanity] COULD freely choose to know; love, obey and serve him; and could also decide to hate him; and thereby seal their “eternal -life-choice; which through God‘s Mercy can be changed. Mans repentance and conversion are possible until the moment of our death. Because God is Perfect; God demands perfected love in return for Perfect Love offered to us. Grace can be, and often is denied by the one to whom it is being offered, and God does not [actually cannot] force anyone to accept his grace. It is freely offered and must be freely accepted.
“Predestined” means only: “foreknowledge of mans freewill-choice” Because God is “All- Knowing;” God knows what our freewill choice will be. BUT this knowledge is not God’s choice; it is mans own choice. God desires that ALL men be saved.
1 Timothy 2:4 “Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth” [“truth is by necessity: singular.]
Deuteronomy 30:19 “I call heaven and earth to witness this day, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing. Choose therefore life, that both thou and thy seed may live” … Matthew 16:25 “For he that will save his life, shall lose it: and he that shall lose his life for my sake, shall find it.”
Eph.3: 9 to 12 “And to make all men see what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things; that through the church [SINGULAR: meaning THE CATHOLIC Church] the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places. This was according to the eternal purpose which he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have boldness and confidence of access through our faith in him”
Matthew 4:4 “Who answered and said: It is written, Not in bread alone doth man live, but in every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God”
Matt.13:9-12 “He who has ears, let him hear.” Then the disciples came and said to him, “Why do you speak to them in parables?” And he answered them, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.” For to him who has will more be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away. “
John 12: 48-49 “He who rejects me and does not receive my sayings has a judge; the word that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.
For I have not spoken on my own authority; the Father who sent me has himself given me commandment what to say and what to speak.” Matt. 28:18-20 “
And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you” the mandate to teach His Faith is too the Catholic Church ONLY; directly and exclusively. “Succession” is mandated by virtue of the command to cf. “teach the entire world what I [God] taught “YOU!”
Irresistible Grace: “When God calls his elect into salvation, they cannot resist. God offers to all people the gospel message. This is called the external call. But to the elect, God extends an internal call and it cannot be resisted. This call is by the Holy Spirit who works in the hearts and minds of the elect to bring them to repentance and regeneration whereby they willingly and freely come to God. Some of the verses used in support of this teaching are Romans 9:16 where it says that “it is not of him who wills nor of him who runs, but of God who has mercy”; Philippians 2:12-13 where God is said to be the one working salvation in the individual; John 6:28-29 where faith is declared to be the work of God; Acts 13:48 where God appoints people to believe; and John 1:12-13 where being born again is not by man’s will, but by God’s.”
“All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out,” (John 6:37).
Our Catholic response
Facts: God did not “have to”
Create the Universe [but did so in-order that all men “could” know him]
Create man at all
Create man in his own image [Gen. 1:26-27]. Making man alone able to know, love, serve and obey him; AND OR; choose not too.
Only man can rationalize; can choose to love or hate. NOT just some men; But ALL mankind.
Calvin is seeking evidence of an impossible reality as I have clearly noted above. Grace is a “free GIFT from God,” and God being Good, Merciful and Perfect MUST, and DOES obligate himself to OFFER sufficient grace to everyone; and then permit THEM to freely choose.
Isaiah 43: 7 & 21 “And every one that calleth upon my name, I have created him for my glory, I have formed him, and made him & This people have I formed for myself, they shall shew forth my praise”
Eph. 3:6-10 “That the Gentiles [ALL implied] should be fellow heirs, and of the same body, and co-partners of his promise in Christ Jesus, by the gospel: Of which I am made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God, which is given to me according to the operation of his power: To me, the least of all the saints, is given this grace, to preach among the Gentiles, the unsearchable riches of Christ, And to enlighten all men, that they may see what is the dispensation of the mystery which hath been hidden from eternity in God, who created all things: That the manifold wisdom of God may be made known to the principalities and powers in heavenly places through the [singular: Catholic-] church”
Romans 1:7 “To all that are at Rome, the beloved of God, called to be saints. Grace to you, and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.”
Romans 6:23 “For the wages of sin is death. But the grace of God, life everlasting, in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
Romans 16:24 “The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen”
Ephesians 4:7 “But to every one of us is given grace, [At least sufficient to choose salvation] according to the measure of the giving of Christ.”
Romans 13:1 “Let every soul be subject to higher powers: for there is no power but from God: and those that are, are ordained of God.”
Perseverance of the Saints: “You cannot lose your salvation. Because the Father has elected, the Son has redeemed, and the Holy Spirit has applied salvation, those thus saved are eternally secure. They are eternally secure in Christ. Some of the verses for this position are John 10:27-28 where Jesus said His sheep will never perish; John 6:47 where salvation is described as everlasting life; Romans 8:1 where it is said we have passed out of judgment; 1 Corinthians 10:13 where God promises to never let us be tempted beyond what we can handle; and Phil. 1:6 where God is the one being faithful to perfect us until the day of Jesus’ return”
. END of this quoted site
Our Catholic response
This errant position is the man-invented, predetermined end, seeking a justification by inventing the means.
This position ignores the entire Old Testament and then somehow claims a right that cannot exist, to cull; to pick and choose only what suits this man-devised concept of salvation without any demands; conditions, or commitment required. God would no longer be “God” were this a reality. The fact that this position is far more simple; far easier than God’s Actual truth is duplicitous and deceitful planning. Knowing that he would have to “sell” his “faith”; like any merchant; Calvin packages it with simplistic demands; understanding the common desire by OH! So many, to choose the “easier path; the down hill, well worn path.”
John. 7:18 “He who speaks on his own authority seeks his own glory; but he who seeks the glory of him who sent him is true, and in him there is no falsehood.”
Rom.13: 1-5 “Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God
. [Certainly God did not wait about 1,700 years for Calvin to come along to reveal his truth.] Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of him who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain; he is the servant of God to execute his wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be subject, not only to avoid God’s wrath but also for the sake of conscience.”
Eph. 4: 1-7 “I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called, with all lowliness and meekness, with patience, forbearing one another in love, eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body [Meaning Only One Church!] and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, one faith, [Meaning Only One true set of Faith -beliefs] one baptism, one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift.
Matthew 7: 11-15 “If you then being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children: how much more will your Father who is in heaven, give good things to [ALL implied] them that ask him? All things therefore whatsoever you would that men should do to you, do you also to them. For this is the law and the prophets. Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat. How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it! Beware of false prophets, who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves”
Psalms 127:1“Unless the Lord builds the house, those who build it labor in vain. Unless the Lord watches over the city, the watchman stays awake in vain.”
Acts.20: 28 “Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God [SINGULAR] which he obtained with the blood of his own Son.”
Romans 13: 2 “Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.”
2Pet.2:1 “But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.”
Jer.3: 15 “`And I will give you shepherds after my own heart, who will feed you with knowledge and understanding.”
John 10: 16 “And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd.”
2nd. Peter 3: 14 “-17 “Therefore, beloved, since you wait for these, be zealous to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability”
2nd. Peter 1: 16-21 “You will do well to pay attention to this as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts”
. First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.”
John 5: 37 “And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness to me. His voice you have never heard, his form you have never seen; and you do not have his word abiding in you, for you do not believe him whom he has sent. You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness to me; yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life [Speaking of accepting the entire WORD of GOD]. I do not receive glory from men .[Meaning disobedience is rampant!] But I know that you have not the love of God within you. I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not receive me” [Obey Me!]
2 Thess. 1: 8 “inflicting vengeance upon those who do not know God and upon those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They shall suffer the punishment of eternal destruction and exclusion from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might”
2 Cor. 4: 2 “We have renounced disgraceful, underhanded ways; we refuse to practice cunning or to tamper with God’s word, but by the open statement of the truth we would commend ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled only to those who are perishing.”
1 John 4: “Little children, you are of God, and have overcome them; for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. They are of the world, therefore what they say is of the world, and the world listens to them. We are of God. Whoever knows God listens to us, and he who is not of God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.”
James Morning Meditations continued [ a felow Blogger]
[QUOTE]And even Jesus said that “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16), which does not seem to mean for God so loved the elect… He loved…loves the world.[/QUOTE]
Yea; you Do understand this critical point.
[QUOTE]But what do I do with all this? I happen to agree that “He who makes the universe makes the rules” and that God is sovereign over all, even when we don’t like how He expresses His ultimate sovereignty over our existence.”[/QUOTE]
Ahhh, but we can know.
Look up these passages in this sequence:
Mt. 10:1-8
Mt. 15:15-19
Mt. 18:18
Jn. 14;16-17
Jn.20:21-22
Jn.17:15-19
Mk. 16: 14-15
Mt. 28: 16-20
Confirmed:
John.10: 16 “And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd”
Eph. 2:19-20 “So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”
Eph. 3: 9-10 “And to make all men see what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things; that through the church [singular] the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places. This was according to the eternal purpose which he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord,
[QUOTE]If God “pre-chose” who would be saved and who wouldn’t be, who am I to argue?
But one of the things I really like about Judaism is that it’s OK to wrestle with God about the “hard stuff” and not be afraid (though I expect to get banged up in the process).
One theory of “election” is that God already knew before He created the universe who would accept Him in faith and who would not, so the “elect” are simply those who would have chosen God anyway and the “non-elect” are those who, no matter what, would never have accepted God.
But that’s not how Romans 9:13-24 reads. It reads like God made His decision and, as his creations, as clay jars from the potter’s hands, we have nothing to say about how we are formed, if we are formed “saved” or “doomed.”
On the other hand we are all formed in God’s image, which means that everyone has something of the Divine in them/us. We are all searching for God, granted some in pretty malformed ways, but that’s why the very concept of “spirituality” exists in our world.[/QUOTE]
T U L I P summation by Pat Miron
Calvin’s “TULIP” is not a flower, put a poisonous weed.
Because God is One, Good; and even Perfect, God cannot possibly hold more than one set of faith beliefs on long defied issues; much less contradictory ones.
Calvin’s theology is a direct affront on the Sovereignty of the God-Head; and a frontal attack on Christ Himself as a “Good and Perfect God.” In effect, Calvin denies God’s right to “be God.” God’s absolute need for Fairness, Goodness and Justice are denied the Very One who Cannot be denied with impunity.
Some of God’s absolutely essential; elementary, and undeniable attributes are denied by TULIP. To be clear: denial of God’s Word; IS Denial of God Himself.
Mt. 12: 31-35 “Therefore I say to you: Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but the blasphemy of the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, [the human nature of Christ] it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, [The Triune God-head] it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come. Either make the tree good and its fruit good: or make the tree evil, and its fruit evil. For by the fruit the tree is known. O generation of vipers, how can you speak good things, whereas you are evil? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. A good man out of a good treasure bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of an evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.”
2nd. Peter 1: 20-21 First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.
John 5: 37 “And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness to me. His voice you have never heard, his form you have never seen; and you do not have his word abiding in you, for you do not believe him whom he has sent. You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness to me; yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life [Speaking of accepting the entire WORD of GOD]. I do not receive glory from men .[Meaning disobedience is rampant!] But I know that you have not the love of God within you. I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not receive me” [Obey Me!]
John 12: 48-49 He who rejects me and does not receive my sayings has a judge; the word that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day. For I have not spoken on my own authority; the Father who sent me has himself given me commandment what to say and what to speak.”
Eph.3: 9 to 12 “And to make all men see what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things; that through the church [SINGULAR: meaning THE CATHOLIC Church] the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places. This was according to the eternal purpose which he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have boldness and confidence of access through our faith in him
Matthew 4:4 “Who answered and said: It is written, Not in bread alone doth man live, but in every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God”
By Pat Miron [working4chist2]
working4christ2 
