Great Expatiations


Great Expatiations II {too}

Why do Catholics do what THEY do?

By Patrick Miron

For many Catholics, one of the things we have little understanding of with our Christian Brethren who seemingly “just don’t get it,” deals with the Catholic Sacraments. Adding to this confusion is that many of them choose to call themselves “Bible Church‘s”, which we assume means they actually choose to abide by what the bible actually says. Not so!

A few years ago, while visiting my sister who is of the Baptist faith,  begin to discuss religion.

Sister: Are you saved?

Me: yes I am and I’m in the process of being saved

Sister: what kind of answer is that?

Me: the truth

Sister: That’s NOT! What the bible says

Me: Really?

So I asked her if she had a bible in the car, and she told me that she had the New Testament Gospels only. I looked up

John 20:19-23, which I share here from the King James bible: v19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples [Apostles] were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. v21 21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. v22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: v23 Whose soever sins ye remit , they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain , they are retained” END QUOTE I could have provided other examples; but the clarity of this seemed to me, indisputable.

I then explained to Sis, that Christ here was speaking both directly too, and exclusively too His Apostles

[SEE: Mt. 10: 1-8, Mt. 16:15-19, John 14: 16-17, Mk. 16:14-15, and Mt. 28:16-20 for further evidence of this fact]. Her response was “WELL THAT MAY BE WHAT IT SAY’S, BUT THAT’S NOT WHAT IT MEANS.” When I told her that I could prove biblically that it was; her response was: “I DON’T WANT TO TALK ABOUT It ANY MORE.”

Me: [a silent] Duh: OK?????? She broached the topic, not me.

All of seem to agree WHO God is. And most of us even agree on the Blessed Trinity. But we do not agree on what God is.

Let’s “fast-Forward here.”

I recall some time ago, a Nationally Known and highly respected main Line Protestant Preacher enumerate on Television, “what God is“:

OMNIPOTENCE. [Here’s the Catholic definition: from Father Hardon‘s Catholic Dictionary] “The almighty power of God. He can do whatever does not deny his nature or that is not self-contradictory. Since God is infinite in being, he must also be infinite in power. (Etym. Latin omnis, all + potentia, power: omnipotens, all-powerful.)” End Quote and also: OMNISCIENCE. [again from Father Hardon’s Catholic Dictionary] God’s knowledge of all things. Revelation discloses that the wisdom of God is without measure (Psalm 146:5). And the Church teaches that his knowledge is infinite.

The primary object of divine cognition is God himself, whom he knows immediately, that is, without any medium by which he apprehends his nature. He knows himself through himself.

The secondary objects of divine knowledge are everything else, namely the purely possible, the real, and the conditionally future. He knows all that is merely possible by what is called the knowledge of simple intelligence. This means that, in comprehending his infinite imitability and his omnipotence, God knows therein the whole sphere of the possible.

He knows all real things in the past, present, and the future by his knowledge of vision. When God, in his self-consciousness, beholds his infinite operative power, he knows therein all that he, as the main effective cause, actually comprehends, i.e., all reality. The difference between past, present, and future does not exist for the divine knowledge, since for God all is simultaneously present.

By the same knowledge of vision, God also foresees the future free acts of the rational creatures with infallible certainty. As taught by the Church, “All things are naked and open to His eyes, even those things that will happen through the free actions of creatures” (Denzinger 3003). The future free actions foreseen by God follow infallibly not because God substitutes his will for the free wills of his creatures but because he does not interfere with the freedom that he foresees creatures will exercise. (Etym. Latin omnis, all + scire, to know.) END QUOTE

Now back to this notable preacher who went on for a half-hour about God being all Powerful, All Good, All Perfect and so on. Interspersed in his dialog were a considerable number of derogatory comments about the Catholic Church. I still have not been able to reconcile what he said “GOD IS” and what he claimed the catholic church is.

I have often used this brief definition of God, and in fact shared with my sister. GOD IS ALL GOOD THINGS PERFECTED. Sis agreed with the definition until I attempted to explain just what this brief explanation entails. It is a critical affirmation that God IS Good; and can be only Good, and that God is Perfect, and can only be Perfect. {UNABLE TO ERROR} consequently He is incapable of lying or deceiving. What God CLAIMS is TRUE; MUST therefore actually BE TRUE. [singular]

Now I must confess that not everything the bible “say’s” is in FACT; exactly what the bible means. For example:

Matthew 18:8And if thy hand, or thy foot scandalize thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee. It is better for thee to go into life maimed or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into everlasting fire. & Mark 9:42 “And if thy hand scandalize thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life, maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into unquenchable fire.” And here is a personal favorite: Matt.7: 4 “Or how can you say to your brother, `Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye?”

Obviously, even indisputably, the metaphorical form is a part of the bibles authorship. So HOW THEN DOES ONE KNOW what is a metaphor, and what is literal? Can we actually know? And this my friends get’s to today’s TOPIC. What are our “Good and Perfect God’s” personal expatiations?

In answering this query, it is necessary to have a Foundation from which we can agree as a launching point. Please KNOW, I do intend to enter into an argument here.  I am willing and even excited about discussing with anyone who is charitable, can provide evidence of there position, and is willing to at least entertain, what I share.

There is but one single INFALLIBLE Rule for right understanding of the Bible. It is this:

[Caps used for emphasis not shouting]

NEVER, EVER, CAN MAY OR DOES ONE BIBLE VERSE, PASSAGE OR TEACHING MAKE VOID, INVALIDATE OR OVERRIDE ANOTHER. This, and charity, along with evidence of your positions are the only conditions to our discussion that I must insist upon. Where this Infallible Rule, not logically the fact, the bible would be worthless for teaching or learning ones Faith.

The basis for catholic beliefs evolve around what we hold to be bible truth, and biblically verifiable.

One God

Can have only One set of Faith beliefs

And has always [for reasons only God fully comprehends] just one chosen people.

That Christ is that One God

The Catholic Faith alone [23 branches] is that One true, complete and protected Faith

And today’s Catholic Church is the only Church [thus the “chosen people“] founded and desired by God.

So friends, just what don’t we Catholic understand?

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11 comments on “Great Expatiations

  1. Published on Jun 22, 2013

    Ever pause a heated argument to get a drink of water?

    In this Passion Point from his teaching on the Torah Portion “Korach”,

    Pastor Jim Staley shares a short personal story and the lesson learned. To watch the full teaching, click here:


    Albion
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    Originally Posted by PJM
    Sincere THANKS for the thought;

    However; truth is its OWN form of charity.

    It is both biblically and historically provable that Jesus founded only One church; and only One set of Faith beliefs; and gave Only One set of Key’s to heavens access.
    Yes, and that “non-denominational” church is the one that later broke into numerous branches, including Orthodox, Roman, Coptic, and many others.

    Convincing oneself that Christ had in mind only one of them is denominational folklore; and it’s something that anyone tempted to believe such a thing really needs to get over.

    Albion
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    Originally Posted by PJM
    If not the CC; What church DO YOU think was founded by Christ?
    Did you read my previous two posts? It’s all answered for you there.

    I can prove its todays CC.

    I’ll bet you can also prove that the moon is made of green cheese, too.

    I’d recommend that we actually discuss something serious if we are to go ahead with this thread. For example, do you think that it is profitable or advisable for our churches to style themselves “the Apostolic” churches when we know for a certainty that the word is used by other churches in a different way and it sounds arrogant in any case?

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    PJM correct understanding of scripture with –God Himself limits their ability to und
    Originally Posted by Albion
    Then you should be able to appreciate how transparent such denominational propaganda comes across to those who have not taken the “whatever my church says” approach to truth.
    A Catholic reply to Protestant “[mis]- Understandings” Part 3

    pat miron

    ONLY One Catholic Church, [23 braches], all sharing the same, One set of commonly held faith beliefs;

    What became immediately apparent is the sincerity of the positions held by Mr. Heinze., and his evident desire to be factual and true.

    Which only affirms my own opinion that God Himself has a role in these well-intended Protestant positions

    which , nevertheless, reflect serious-errant misunderstandings of Catholic Doctrines and Dogma, along with an in ability to separate “church-practices,” which can change, from doctrine and dogma which cannot be changed.

    God Himself limits their ability to understand the bible by imposing upon them the plague of Ignorance.

    This will be proven and become very evident as we proceed though the booklet Thomas authored, and which, God willing, we shall prove and provide biblical evidence of that explains and supports the Catholic Positions.

    I have for sometime now been Blessed by God, and able to recognize God’s hand in the lack of RIGHT understanding of what the bible really says as a rather common Protestant trait.

    In fact; it seems to be one thing many of the denominations have in common.

    This ought not be a surprise to any of us who are “bible-savvy,”

    as clear warning is given by God through the bible itself., in a variety of ways.

  2. Albion
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    Originally Posted by PJM
    Sincere THANKS for the thought;

    However; truth is its OWN form of charity.

    It is both biblically and historically provable that Jesus founded only One church; and only One set of Faith beliefs; and gave Only One set of Key’s to heavens access.
    Yes, and that “non-denominational” church is the one that later broke into numerous branches, including Orthodox, Roman, Coptic, and many others.

    Convincing oneself that Christ had in mind only one of them is denominational folklore; and it’s something that anyone tempted to believe such a thing really needs to get over.

    PJM
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    =Albion;62957070]The Church founded by Christ was, however; and that was what I was speaking of.
    Your kidding right?

    If not the CC; What church DO YOU think was founded by Christ?

    I can prove its todays CC. What evidence can you present that it’s not?

    God Bless you my friend,

    Patrick68

    #45
    29th April 2013, 07:13 PM

    Albion
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    Originally Posted by PJM
    If not the CC; What church DO YOU think was founded by Christ?
    Did you read my previous two posts? It’s all answered for you there.

    I can prove its todays CC.
    I’ll bet you can also prove that the moon is made of green cheese, too.

    I’d recommend that we actually discuss something serious if we are to go ahead with this thread. For example, do you think that it is profitable or advisable for our churches to style themselves “the Apostolic” churches when we know for a certainty that the word is used by other churches in a different way and it sounds arrogant in any case?

    #46
    30th April 2013, 09:14 AM
    PJM
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    Originally Posted by Albion
    Did you read my previous two posts? It’s all answered for you there.

    I’ll bet you can also prove that the moon is made of green cheese, too.

    I’d recommend that we actually discuss something serious if we are to go ahead with this thread. For example, do you think that it is profitable or advisable for our churches to style themselves “the Apostolic” churches when we know for a certainty that the word is used by other churches in a different way and it sounds arrogant in any case?
    For the RECORD; if you’d ever care to take me up on by claim; just let me know.

    Now as for your question:

    I SUSPECT [IMO] that either ignorance of the provable facts exist in these cases; or a lack of what is actually meant by such an association of terms fails to recogonize the moral obligations of such a choice exist.

    It really flows into what exactly is a “bible church?”

    Both seems to require certain moral obligations implicit in the titles chosen.

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    Originally Posted by gnosisofthomas
    We might not call them denominations, but there were a number of different schools of thought in early Christianity
    Many more after the establishment of Orthodoxy, because Orthodoxy was established before the advent of the neoplatonic prophet Plotinus.

    Originally Posted by gnosisofthomas
    They were catholic in the sense of “universal”
    Why do you accept the Roman Catholic definition of catholic as “universal”?

    Originally Posted by gnosisofthomas
    That’s what the councils were for, to decide which beliefs were orthodox and could be backed by the Roman Empire
    Except for the Councils of Jerusalem, Rome, Ephesus, Carthage, Iconium, Gangra, Arabia, Ancyra, Arles, and the post-Roman councils of Iasi and Jerusalem 1672, among numerous other non-Ecumenical (Roman dominion) councils.

  3. WHAT IS AN APOSTOLIC CHURCH– DISCUSSION WITH PATRICK J MIRON — WORKING4 CHRIST???

    WORKING FOR SELF????

    RETIREMENT HAS BEEN GOOD 4 PAT ????

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    Originally Posted by PJM
    Actually I was the TEACHER, and I can prove my position biblically.
    Then you should be able to appreciate how transparent such denominational propaganda comes across to those who have not taken the “whatever my church says” approach to truth.

    #13
    4th February 2013, 06:23 PM

    gnosisofthomas
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    Originally Posted by Albion
    Is that what they told you in RCIA class?

    No, there were no denominations in those days.
    They were catholic in the sense of “universal,” but that shouldn’t be confused with Roman Catholicism.

    We might not call them denominations, but there were a number of different schools of thought in early Christianity prior to the establishment of orthodoxy. That’s what the councils were for, to decide which beliefs were orthodox and could be backed by the Roman Empire, and which ones were heterodox or “heretical”.

    Originally Posted by PJM
    But how does it apply outside of the catholic and Orthodox church’s?
    Apostolic Succession is passed on from bishop to bishop through the laying on of hands. Some people who have been consecrated bishops have gone on to establish denominations outside of Eastern Orthodox or Roman Catholic jurisdiction. The degree to which their validity is recognized by Catholic and Orthodox churches varies… Roman Catholicism generally considers their episcopacies valid but illicit because they are not in union with the pope. The Eastern Orthodox (if I remember correctly) don’t consider non-Orthodox ordination to be valid at all.

    Basically the idea outside of Orthodoxy is that once a bishop has received the sacrament of holy orders, he’s always a bishop. You can’t take a sacrament back from someone. So he can validly pass on the apostolic succession to someone else to make them a bishop. From the Catholic perspective, this is illicit because he didn’t do it with the approval of Rome, and his “schismatic” church may teach things contrary to the Roman Catholic faith.

    #14
    4th February 2013, 06:30 PM

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    Originally Posted by gnosisofthomas
    They were catholic in the sense of “universal,” but that shouldn’t be confused with Roman Catholicism.
    Correct, but the word wasn’t even used in any context until ca 100 AD.

    We might not call them denominations, but there were a number of different schools of thought in early Christianity prior to the establishment of orthodoxy.
    That’s true.

    #15
    4th February 2013, 06:46 PM
    PJM
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    =Albion;62328679]Then you should be able to appreciate how transparent such denominational propaganda comes across to those who have not taken the “whatever my church says” approach to truth.
    My friend,

    While I appeciate your personal views.

    However what I shared is not propoganda; rather it is the singular truth, Proveable both historically and biblically.

    God Bless you,
    pat/JM

    #16
    4th February 2013, 06:52 PM

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    Originally Posted by PJM
    My friend,

    While I appeciate your personal views.
    Then you should also be able to appreciate history. In the first century or so, there was no Apostolic Succession as it we know it, but it developed as a safeguard about the background of the minister and therefore his credibility. And no, everyone was NOT a Catholic in those days, not by any meaning of the word.

    Peace.

    #17
    4th February 2013, 07:02 PM
    PJM
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    =Albion;62336950]Then you should also be able to appreciate history. In the first century or so, there was no Apostolic Succession as it we know it, but it developed as a safeguard about the background of the minister and therefore his credibility. And no, everyone was NOT a Catholic in those days, not by any meaning of the word.

    Peace.
    Of course there was.

    Not by name but by the actions of the Apostles themselves.

    Act 2:28 ” Take heed to yourselves, and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops, to rule the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.”

    Phil. 1:1 “Paul and Timothy, the servants of Jesus Christ; to all the saints in Christ Jesus, who are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons”

    God Bless you,
    pat/PJM

    #18
    4th February 2013, 07:50 PM

    Albion
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    Originally Posted by PJM
    Of course there was.
    You DON’T believe that there were many different Christian groups, including many Gnostics and others we’d call unorthodox?

    Not by name but by the actions of the Apostles themselves.
    Oh yes, some of these men traced their training to one of the Apostles. That’s how they established their credibility. But the idea of a lineage conferring some sort of Apostolic authority was known not from the beginning and only developed in the late first century.

    #19
    5th February 2013, 04:15 PM
    PJM
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    =Albion;62337232]You DON’T believe that there were many different Christian groups, including many Gnostics and others we’d call unorthodox?

    Oh yes, some of these men traced their training to one of the Apostles. That’s how they established their credibility. But the idea of a lineage conferring some sort of Apostolic authority was known not from the beginning and only developed in the late first century.
    No, actually they all did.

    Your position must deny the reality of Christ Mandate to cf. “GO!And teach the ENTIRE WOLD what I God Taught to YOU.”

    Mk. 16″14-20 “At length he appeared to the eleven as they were at table: and he upbraided them with their incredulity and hardness of heart, because they did not believe them who had seen him after he was risen again. And he said to them: Go ye into the whole world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

    He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be condemned. And these signs shall follow them that believe: In my name they shall cast out devils: they shall speak with new tongues. They shall take up serpents; and if they shall drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them: they shall lay their hands upon the sick, and they shall recover. And the Lord Jesus, after he had spoken to them, was taken up into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God.But they going forth preached everywhere: the Lord working withal, and confirming the word with signs that followed.

    Then Look up Mt. 10: 1-8
    Mt. 28: 16; 18-20 “And the eleven disciples [APOSTLES] went into Galilee, unto the mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth.Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.

    Your position would have the Apostles not knowing Jesus said this them MOMEMENTS before He was taken from their site. IMPOSSIBLE my friend.

    God Bless you,
    pat/PJM

    #20
    5th February 2013, 06:10 PM

    Albion
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    Originally Posted by PJM
    No, actually they all did.
    What? You think that every evangelist and teacher in the first century had been commissioned directly and studied under one of the Twelve Apostles? No, that’s not the case.

    Your position would have the Apostles not knowing Jesus said this them MOMEMENTS before He was taken from their site. IMPOSSIBLE my friend.
    I don’t know where you got such ridiculous notions, but nothing I wrote has anything to do with that. Before you decide what my “position would have,” read what I wrote with a little more care…and don’t let your imagination run away with you.

  4. just in case this did not post correctly

    Passion Points – Getting the King’s Perspective

  5. See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy,

    See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy,

    1I want you to know how hard I am contending for you and for those at Laodicea, and for all who have not met me personally.

    2My goal is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, 3in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

    4I tell you this so that no one may deceive you by fine-sounding arguments.

    5For though I am absent from you in body, I am present with you in spirit and delight to see how disciplined you are and how firm your faith in Christ is.
    Spiritual Fullness in Christ

    6So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in him, 7rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness.

    8See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy,

    which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forcesa of this world rather than on Christ.

    9For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,

    10and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority. 11In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the fleshb was put off when you were circumcised byc Christ,

    12 having been buried with him in baptism,

    in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.
    1

    3 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made youd alive with Christ.

    He forgave us all our sins,

    14having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.

    15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.e

    Freedom From Human Rules

    16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

    17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

    18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you.

    Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind.

    19 They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

    20 Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules:

    21 “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? 2

    2 These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings.

    23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

    Share this:

    • My dear friend in Christ,

      Perhaps it,s my age or lack of education, but I don’t quite get the point of your post.

      Your quoting Paul; a Saint in today’s Catholic Church, speaking to either other Catholics, or prosepective Catholics.

      It cannot be proven biblically or historically that Chruist did in fact intend to found One New religion, with One man heading it, and a “new body” that Christ call’s “My Church” [singular] Mt.16:18

      This follows exactly the existing Old Testament patern of just One God; One True Faith and One Synagogue [church].

      And YES, this is all clearly biblical. So what is the point your making, that I fail to grasp?

      God Bless you, Patrick’ working4christ2

      • fred says:

        Thank you — because you really did wake me up– and provide me with a lot of entertainment

        a little bit of catholic distortion commentary– provided by PJM

        as u have demenstrated the difference– you believe your distortion– and consider you self working4christ–

        do the roman catholic sacraments as presented give you special “grace” — most often not!!

        were the roman catholic sacraments invented by Christ– no they were created by Constantine in after 315 ad —

        after the Jesus’s church — or assembly– in the way–separated from the vine of the Jewish fellowship

        Constantine was an emperor of an empire– and you obey the emperor or “die”

        most roman catholics do not have the “new birth experience”

        this is why– they say Gee– i’m struggling with sin

        and many protestants do not– when they practice empty ceremonies–

        but at least they can figure it out– that something is wrong with a teaching/doctrune

        Jesus did not intend to create a new religion — with out the real guidence of the Holy Spirit..

        you really fit as a catholic TROLL– when you go fishing with a expanded “know it all” religious experience

        based on your memorizing key scriptures–

        John the Baptist said Jesus would baptist you with the Holy Spirit and with fire?

        how ‘s that working out ??

        yes if you don’t believe in the Roman catholic “real presence” then you don’t have the Holy Spirit like you!!

        but others have told you this– as well— they are not seeking “your personal wisdom”

        or your spiritual arrogance..

        saint paul warned about people like you

        2 Timothy 3:6 They are the kind who worm their way into homes and …

        biblehub.com/2_timothy/3-6.htm‎– creep into houses

        2 Timothy 3:6 ▻ … For some of them are these who crawl house to house and capture women buried in sins and are … So true is St. Paul’s forecast in the text.

        you might consider moving to stupidvill ohio to get some “real” catholic inspired doctrine”

        or go to Mejorgiti A Miracle of The Sun Medjugorje Nov.2, 2008

        well i do enjoy your interpretation of scripture– all scripture is open for individual revelation–
        probably the most interesting spiritual manafestation going on is the “spirit” appearing in mejorgi hat says it is the virgin mary–

        what makes it interesting is that you can go on u-tube and seee the distoration field that spirit eneity or dimenational creature produces..
        and when people leave there –

        – they now hear “voices” IN THEIR mind speaking to them.. different revelation–and the roman catholic church “can’t quite get a handle on it”

        interesting that the roman catholic church has not figured out this is a “familiar spirit” and not Mary”

        Quote:
        =1toolbox;10548833]Originally Posted by ThePerson
        I am not sure exactly where to put this, so I put it here. My friend is considering converting to another religion outside of Catholicism, which she has been part of since she was born. I have tried to talk her out of it, but she has made up her mind, and as her friend I have decided to respect her decision. She was baptized as a baby. Is there anything official she has to do to leave the Church? She is going to continue going to a Catholic school since she loves the small classes and teachers. The problem is, we go to mass once a month as a school. What should she do about that. I am asking because she is too afraid to ask for herself. Also, I am curious, if she leaves the church, but comes back, will she have to be baptized again? Any answers would be appreciated, thank you.

        hello i interested in what religion is this person considering to be come identified with?

        as i have known many former catholics that attend other denominations, and they have found peace and contentment with other assemblies.. but the counsel of trent did anamithia everyone out side of the catholic religion, but as you can see that this has not stopped people from seeking spiritual answers and results – else where..

        each protestant domination offers a part that appeals to one’s individual intelligence and spiritual maturity.
        OR One MUST ADD in doing so VERY likely chosing eternal damnatio in theprocess:

        And NO, it’s not my opinion [although I agree with tis truth]

        Heb. 6: 2-8
        [caps for emphasis not shouting]

        TAKE NOTE THAT WHEN THESE WORDS WERE WRITTEN THE ONLY GOD; FAITH AND “CHURCH”

        WAS TODAYS CC. ( nope — pat u-got it wrong)

        “Of the doctrine of baptisms, and imposition of hands, and of the resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

        And this will we do, if God permit. For it is impossible**

        for those who were once illuminated,[GRANTED GRACE 4 TRUE FAITH singular]

        ] have tasted also the heavenly gift,[CATHOLIC EUCHARIST]

        and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,[SAC. OF CONFIRMATION]]

        Have moreover tasted the good word of God,[CORRECT BIBLE TEACHINGS]

        And are fallen away: to be renewed again to penance,

        [SAC. OF CONFESSION] crucifying again to themselves the Son of God, and making him a mockery.

        For the earth that drinketh in the rain which cometh often upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is tilled, receiveth blessing from God.

        But that which bringeth forth thorns and briers, is reprobate, and very near unto a curse, whose end is to be burnt

        “IMPOSSIBLE” here does NOT mean that repentace can’t take place; only that Gods necessary grace to do so will be difficult to attain.

        One God
        Founded only His One Church
        & w/ it Only One set of faith beliefs.

        There is absolutely NO doubt that choosing to leave the CC is choosing to Abandon God!
        Amen

        We MUST serve God HIS WAY; period!

        Let us pray for those fooling and selfish enough to have made such a choice

      • fred commented on Great Expatiations
        [QUOTE]Thank you — because you really did wake me up– and provide me with a lot of entertainment a little bit of catholic distortion commentary– provided by PJM

        as u have demenstrated the difference– you believe your distortion– and consider you self working4christ–
        do the roman catholic sacraments as presented give you special “grace” — most often not!![/QUOTE]

        Here as a FYI from my MENTOR [may he rest in Peace]; Father John A. Hardon S.J.’s Catholic Dictionary: “SACRAMENTAL GRACE. The grace conferred by the valid and fruitful reception of the sacraments. It may be one or more of several kinds: 1. sanctifying grace is communicated in baptism, penance and in anointing of the sick when needed; 2. sanctifying grace is always increased when a sacrament is received in the state of grace; 3. actual grace is given by all the sacraments, either actually at the time of reception or also by title as a person needs divine help; 4. the sacramental character is indelibly imprinted on the soul in baptism, confirmation, and the priesthood; and 5. a distinctive sacramental grace is imparted by each of the seven sacraments, corresponding to their respective purpose in the supernatural life of the soul. See also ACTUAL GRACE, EFFICACIOUS GRACE, GRACE, HABITUAL GRACE, JUSTIFYING GRACE, SANCTIFYING GRACE, SUFFICIENT GRACE”

        [QUOTE]were the roman catholic sacraments invented by Christ– no they were created by Constantine in after 315 ad — after the Jesus’s church — or assembly– in the way–separated from the vine of the Jewish fellowship. Constantine was an emperor of an empire– and you obey the emperor or “die”[/QUOTE]

        And your evidence of this [aside from erroneous gossip, and false teaching] is exactly what? For your edification and the absolute need for TRUTH
        Each of the seven Sacraments were instituted by Christ. Four explicitly and three, implicitly. So LET’S REVIEW THE BIBLICAL FACTS.

        1. Baptism; explicitly: John 3:5 “Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”

        2. Confirmation: explicitly: John 20:19-22 “On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” hen he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.”

        3. Confession / Reconciliation / Penance: explicitly John 20:19- 23 “On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”
        When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

        4. Eucharist: The real Presence: explicitly Testimony by Christ HIMSELF + FIVE separate authors of the bible!

        Matthew 26: 26-28
        And whilst they were at supper, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke: and gave to his disciples, and said: Take ye, and eat. This is my body. And taking the chalice, he gave thanks, and gave to them, saying: Drink ye all of this. For this is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many unto remission of sins.

        MARK 14: 22-24
        And whilst they were eating, Jesus took bread; and blessing, broke, and gave to them, and said: Take ye. This is my body. And having taken the chalice, giving thanks, he gave it to them. And they all drank of it. And he said to them: This is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many

        Luke 22: 19-21
        And taking bread, he gave thanks, and brake; and gave to them, saying: This is my body, which is given for you. Do this for a commemoration of me. In like manner the chalice also, after he had supped, saying: This is the chalice, the new testament in my blood, which shall be shed for you.

        Paul 1 Cor.11: 23-29
        For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus, the same night in which he was betrayed, took bread. And giving thanks, broke, and said: Take ye, and eat: this is my body, which shall be delivered for you: this do for the commemoration of me. In like manner also the chalice, after he had supped, saying: This chalice is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as often as you shall drink, for the commemoration of me. For as often as you shall eat this bread, and drink the chalice, you shall show the death of the Lord, until he come. Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord. But let a man prove himself: [to be worthy of the privilege] and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of the chalice. For he that eats and drinks unworthily, eats and drinks judgment to himself”
        John from Chapter 6: 47-57

        Amen, amen I say unto you: He that believeth in me, hath everlasting life. I am the bread of life. I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever; and the bread that I will give, is my flesh, for the life of the world. The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying: How can this man give us his flesh to eat? Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. He that eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. He that eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, abides in me, and I in him.

        5. Marriage: implicitly John 2: 1-9 “On the third day there was a marriage at Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there; Jesus also was invited to the marriage, with his disciples. When the wine failed, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.” And Jesus said to her, “O woman, what have you to do with me? My hour has not yet come.” His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.” Now six stone jars were standing there, for the Jewish rites of purification, each holding twenty or thirty gallons. Jesus said to them, “Fill the jars with water.” And they filled them up to the brim. He said to them, “Now draw some out, and take it to the steward of the feast.” So they took it. When the steward of the feast tasted the water now become wine, and did not know where it came from (though the servants who had drawn the water knew), the steward of the feast called the bridegroom … This was the first miracle that Jesus did and one of the few not somehow related to essential elements of our personal salvation. Theologians have attributed the raising of Marriage to a sacramental level as one of the goals and effects of this act.

        This is further augmented by Mark 10: 1-9 “ And he left there and went to the region of Judea and beyond the Jordan, and crowds gathered to him again; and again, as his custom was, he taught them. And Pharisees came up and in order to test him asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?” He answered them, “What did Moses command you?” They said, “Moses allowed a man to write a certificate of divorce, and to put her away.” But Jesus said to them, “For your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment. But from the beginning of creation, `God made them male and female.’ `For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder.”

        6. Holy Orders/The catholic priesthood implicitly
        The evidence begins when Jesus gives the Keys to the kingdom of heaven to Peter in Mt. 16:15-19 and is extended to the others in Mt. 18:18 John 17: 17-20 “Sanctify them in truth. Thy word is truth. As thou hast sent me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. [19] And for them do I sanctify myself, that they also may be sanctified in truth. And not for them only do I pray, but for them also who through their word shall believe in me” & again in John 20: 21-22 “He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost” … The precise instant though is in John 20:21-22 “Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.” Here Jesus transfers His actual Powers and Authority as God to His new CC. And Formally Ordains the catholic Priesthood.

        7. The “Last Rites” the final anointing implicit Matt. 10: verse 1-5, & 8 ” 1] And having called his twelve disciples together, he gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of diseases, and all manner of infirmities. [2] And the names of the twelve apostles are these: The first, Simon who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother, [3] James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, Philip and Bartholomew, Thomas and Matthew the publican, and James the son of Alpheus, and Thaddeus, [4] Simon the Cananean, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him. [5] These twelve Jesus sent” [8] Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out devils: freely have you received, freely give”

        James 5: 13-15 Is any one among you suffering? Let him pray. Is any cheerful? Let him sing praise. Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.”

        So now my friend you know a bit more of what is ACTALLY in the bible, and the singular truth. Will you allow it to change your life of just ignore what Jesus did and taught?

        [QUOTE]most roman catholics do not have the “new birth experience”
        this is why– they say Gee– i’m struggling with sin[/QUOTE]

        Oh and your not? Do you actually read the bible my friend? One should NOT assume that we Catholics do not.
        1John.1 Verses 8 to 10: “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”

        1John.5 Verses 16 to 17 “If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

        John.20 Verses 20 to 23 ” When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained”

        By “new Birth experience” I assume you mean OSAS, which is NOT biblical. The reality of this happening takes place in Catholic Baptism and Confirmation.

        [QUOTE]and many protestants do not– when they practice empty ceremonies–
        but at least they can figure it out– that something is wrong with a teaching/doctrune
        Jesus did not intend to create a new religion — with out the real guidence of the Holy Spirit..[/QUOTE]

        REALLY? Dear friend open your bible and stop listening to mere mortal men who created there own religion 1,600+ years after Jesus Christ Founded His one Catholic Church.

        Acts 20: 28-30 Take heed to yourselves, and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops, to rule the church of God, [singular] which he hath purchased with his own blood. I know that, after my departure, ravening wolves will enter in among you, not sparing the flock. And of your own selves shall arise men speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Douay Rheims Bible

        One Church
        Eph. 4: 1-7 “I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called, with all lowliness and meekness, with patience, forbearing one another in love, eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift.

        John.10: 16 “And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd”

        [QUOTE]you really fit as a catholic TROLL– when you go fishing with a expanded “know it all” religious experience
        based on your memorizing key scriptures– [/QUOTE]

        My dear friend I DON”T know it all; JUST the truth [singular by absolute necessity]

        I won’t take any more of your precious time my friend. But I can disprove every point you asserted.

        God Bless you and your’s, and stay close to God.
        Patrick

      • n response to fred:

        Thank you — because you really did wake me up– and provide me with a lot of entertainment a little bit of catholic distortion commentary– provided by PJM

        the non-jew and his return to gods sabbaths which constantine …
        hebrewrootsofchristianity.com/sabbaths_holy_days_gentile.htm‎

        We can begin to look at Constantine and his church

        to find the loss of the Biblical Holy Days and the Sabbath …
        Then, in AD 315, another edict allowed the burning of Jews if they were convicted of breaking the laws. …

        The lie that you are separate from Israel.

        as u have demenstrated the difference– you believe your distortion– and consider you self working4christ–

        A Near Death Experience Leads to God — Testimony — …

        The New Covenant

        The Bible tells us that Judgment must begin at the house of God 1 Peter 4:17. Christ never judged sinners John 8:11 but he sure did judge those who professed to know God.
        *Matt 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

        Satan has not perverted God’s word, God’s word (true love) cannot be perverted; however it can be and is hidden in the Bible. To be found it must be sought for with all your heart, soul, mind and strength. If you want something bad enough you can find it Matt 7:8.

        The true word is now restored at the heel of time Gen 3:15, Rev 12, Acts 3:21.
        The Bible says to rightly divide the word of truth 2 Tim 2:15. The definition of the word divide means to separate into two parts. So the Bible is saying to separate the truth from the lies that are in the Bible, the good from the evil 2 Cor 11:15.

        *Genesis 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

        God is teaching all his children the knowledge of good and evil for all scripture is given by inspiration of God…for instruction in righteousness 2 Tim 3:16 and his righteousness is only found by those who by reason of use learn to discern both good and evil. The definition of the word discern means to detect with senses other than vision Heb 5:13-14. True worshipers must worship in (love) spirit (Gal 5:22) and in truth 1 Peter 1:22, John 17:17, Matt 4:4.

        God is love 1 John 4:8 therefore every word in the Bible that pictures love is truth. There was not truth or grace in the Old Testament it did not come until Christ replaced Satan’s rule and then died for our sins in our stead.

        Christ by his blood has set us all free from an eternal death penalty imposed by Satan whom we have been worshipping by believing his lies of death Heb 9:26, Eph 1:7, Matt 4:1-11, John 20:31.

        *John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
        Some have said they believe the Word of God is Truth and it is Holy and Just and Good and yet they hold Isa 28:15 to a belief of a second death of torture in a blazing fire for deceived innocent children of God when no one can come to the true God unless he draws them to him. The Bible says the second death will be in the lake of fire this is because it is a lie from the devil, it will go where he goes. Rightly divide love (God) from the book of the knowledge of good and evil.

        *Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
        *John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
        Satan is the murderer and liar whom has deceived the whole world with lies and those who believe him are unknowingly following the wrong spirit. Murderers will be destroyed Matt 22:7, Acts 3:23, Rev 2:23, Heb 9:27. Believe in life not death. Believe in eternal love not eternal hate.
        Who are not found written in the book of life? Satan and his demons, that is who Matt 25:41.
        *Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

        Let God possess you and rule you Phil 2:5.

        Until you give up your will Rom 8:7 he cannot live through you.

        When God calls (draws) you to him he is asking you to let him in Rev 3:20 all of our righteousness is as filthy rags, if you do not let him in he cannot choose you.

        Many are called few are chosen to live inside those pearly gates in comparison to all those born of God Gen 1:26.

        The tree of the knowledge of good and evil is not Satan’s way it is God’s way Isa 45:7. To have the knowledge of good and evil is to be a god Ps 82:6, Gen 3:22 which is what God is making us all into, in our own order 1 Cor 15:23, Heb 9:27.

        Most of God’s children will not have holy righteous character when resurrected Heb 10:16.

        God’s Holy righteous character is only being offered to those God calls that will let him in their mind during Satan’s world. Only these chosen, the 144,000 of the government of God and a multitude will learn to develop holy righteous character, by giving their whole heart, soul, and mind (life) to God.

        The 144,000 will judge the resurrected dead who are raised immortal as the angels.
        *Matt 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

        *1 Corinthians 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

        The resurrected dead will be free from sin forever Rom 6:7 they will have the knowledge of good and evil and then they will be born again of spirit John 3:3,6. The resurrected children of God will look like flesh just as Jesus did after he was resurrected John 20:26-27. All will be spirit beings as the angels Heb 13:2

        No one will be called to be a follower of God in his kingdom. That opportunity is in this life only. It is only offered by faith Gal 2:16 to those he will call. For without faith it is impossible to please him, for you must believe that he is and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him Heb 11:6.

        The resurrected dead, in God the Father’s world will all confess Rom 14:11, 1 John 1:9 then they will be placed Ezek 37:26. Their placement is written in the book of life by their works of how they loved others as themselves who they can see Rom 13:10, 1 John 4:20 for how you treat your neighbor is how you treat God Matt 25:35-40 because all are God’s Ps 82:6 children.
        The gifts and calling of God are without repentance Rom 11:29 we love him because he first loved us 1 John 4:19.

        If you are called and want to be chosen to inherit all things Rev 21:7 then you must become perfect in love and we do that by being a workman 2 Tim 2:15, Matt 5:48 seeking it with our whole heart soul and God’s mind living by every word of God giving up all else Matt 10:37 for the high honor of living inside the walls of his kingdom Rev 21:27. Much is required to whom much is given Luke 12:48, Phlp 2:12.

        You will have eternal life whether you want it or not where you will be living for eternity will be determined by your works of love towards God’s children 1 John 3:17.
        All are learning the knowledge of good and evil.

        There will be no more wars Isa 2:4.

        Those living in outer darkness will not be alone. It is not a prison. There are no chains on them only Satan is chained in a prison Rev 20:7.
        Outer darkness just means far away from the New Earth which will be brighter than our current sun Matt 17:2, Rev 22:5.

        God is love when you let love (God) live through you then you are a light to the world to those who will see it Phlp 2:15, 2 Cor 4:4, John 1:9, Matt 5:14.
        Your only regret for all eternity will be that you did not hear nor prove this word from God delivered by a woman at the heel of time Gen 3:15, Rev 12. God will not do it for you, he wants workers in his kingdom. He will not choose people that just hide their talent in the dirt and wait for God to sprout it. Matt 25:30.

        Christ died for all so that all will have life, where each person is placed for eternity is their just punishment of how they loved or didn’t love others. Loving others as yourself is not loving them by your standards (carnal mind) it is loving them by Gods standards (true love) by the way that God made them Matt 10:34-42 only he can open a mind. You must love others as yourself as if you were them. Walk in their shoes, have mercy, because that child of God could have been you. God only opens a humble mind, humble yourself. Become teachable in love.
        *Rom 13:10 love worketh no ill to his neighbor love is the fulfilling of the law.

        * Matt 21:31-32 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you. For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

        God giving eternal life to innocent evil hearted flesh and blood children is grace and mercy because they are deceived Rev 12:9. Those who are forgiven of much will love much Luke 7:47. All Children will have an eternity to make it up to those who suffered at their hand when their eyes are opened and they know the truth.

        God is not limited to a trinity, he is a family of which all created in their image will belong. Those that get placed in outer darkness will also be part of that family.
        To those who believe in reincarnation this is another lie from the Devil for God is not limited to only creating a certain number of children in his image that just keep coming back into someone
        else Gen 32:12, Gen 48:19, Judges 7:12. There will be so many children created that they all won’t fit on the new earth they will need to be placed on other planets in the new heavens.
        *Col 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

        There will be holydays and Sabbath days that all will attend in God’s world forever Zech 14:16.
        *Isa 66:22-23 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

        God loves holydays we will all feast together and rejoice in the awesome love and power and wisdom of God our Father forever. No one will be left out. All will be entered into God’s joy and his rest forever most just won’t be allowed through those pearly gates just as you can’t just go and walk right into the White House in Washington DC anytime you want. It is only for those he chooses by the love they allowed into their hearts. Only those doing the will of God now, by faith, in this world will be allowed inside his home Rev 21:27.

        Rev 21:16 says God’s city the New Jerusalem is 1500 miles in width, length and height, there is not room inside that area for the zillions of God’s children who have ever lived to live in His walled city. This is why many are called few are chosen. From the West Coast of the USA to the East Coast of the USA is about 1500 miles. Yes a multitude will also live there Rev 7:9 but not everyone. Will you be one of these? Or one of the bride?

        Some have believed that the prophet like Moses was Jesus Christ because Moses introduced the Old Covenant and Jesus introduced the New Covenant.
        This is not true because Heb 12:24 says that Jesus is the mediator of the New Covenant, a mediator is the middle man. Also Acts 3:20-21 says that Jesus remains in heaven until the times of restitution of all things and then verse 22 describes the prophet like unto Moses that is to come. These verses are not referring to Jesus as this prophet because Jesus did not make a restitution of all things when he was here. The restitution of all things is the word (Jesus) being delivered again that has been hidden Luke 8:17-18, Luke 12:1-2, Gen 3:15, Rev 12. This word is the new thing Jer 31:22 that frees all from the bondage of slavery from our belief in an eternal death penalty Heb 2:15. It turns the hearts of the fathers to the children to prepare a perfect people in love, before the dreadful day of the lord comes to stop us from total annihilation because we won’t stop killing each other.

        *Mat 4:5 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments. Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

        The New Covenant will not be complete until after Jesus Christ returns for a thousand years.

        God will not allow this earth to be destroyed by us or Satan Matt 24:22 he will do it Rev 21:1-2.
        *Jer 31:31, 33-34 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a New Covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 33. But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

        34. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord:

        for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

      • I’d LOVE to enter into a detail dialog with you.

        You are I FEAR misinformed about Catholics and what we believe and why.

        I’m presently on vacation visiting my kids, grandkids and one GREAT grand child [10 mos old]

        my e-mail is: patrickmiron66@hotmail.com

        If you’d care to enter into a very friendly discussion; pick the topic and lets talk.

        God Bless you [FYI: I don’t do You-Tube] Patrick working4christ2 on WordPress

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