[QUOTE]Hello there, it’s —— from Catholic answers.
I am indeed speaking partly about the Crusades. I can’t help but notice that the CC hasn’t always been perfect in it’s actions and if possible, people who knew the Bible would have realized that what the Church was doing at the time was un-Christian and would have separated themselves from it. As literacy and printing press increased it only made sense that people who read the Bible would separate themselves from a single authority.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for entering into discussion with me.
1st. The Crusades: http://www.thearma.org/essays/Crusades.htm
This site reflects my own understanding of the Crusades. If my memory is correct [I’m 68 and have been out of history classes for a very long time.] But the Church was at least at first defending itself. As a much younger man, I enjoyed history, but that’s along time ago.
“Muslim thought divides the world into two spheres, the Abode of Islam and the Abode of War. Christianity—and for that matter any other non-Muslim religion—has no abode. Christians and Jews can be tolerated within a Muslim state under Muslim rule. But, in traditional Islam, Christian and Jewish states must be destroyed and their lands conquered. When Mohammed was waging war against Mecca in the seventh century, Christianity was the dominant religion of power and wealth. As the faith of the Roman Empire, it spanned the entire Mediterranean, including the Middle East, where it was born. The Christian world, therefore, was a prime target for the earliest caliphs, and it would remain so for Muslim leaders for the next thousand years.”
What I highlighted was true 1,000 years ago, and it remains true in the present day as well.
That is NOT to claim a higher-ground position that claims there were not abuses. Of course there were. BUT this leads to the next point. People do sin!
From my many years of teaching , sharing, explaining and at times defending my Catholic Faith; I have found one of the most commonly misunderstood things by Protestants in general, hold views of the CC which simply are not true; not factual.
It’s a profound Theological issue. There is; has always been and always will be a separation between “The Church” and the PEOPLE within the church. They must be separated because while people can and do sin [Catholics, even clerics included]; “the Church”; is a living entity. But even as such it is impossible for Her [Mother Church] to sin. This is a critical distinction and an all together necessary understanding.
The ONLY time “the Church” can be blamed [or for that matter, credited] is in relation to her formal Teachings on All Faith matters to be believed; and ALL Moral issues. And this is a solidly biblical position.
Only the Catholic church has the Holy Spirit AND Jesus Himself as WARRANTY of Her absolute inability to teach in error on ALL matters of required Faith belief And All Moral matters.
John 14: 16-18 “And I will ask the Father, and he shall give you another Paraclete, that he may abide with you for ever. .. The spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, nor knoweth him: but you shall know him; because he shall abide with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you orphans, I will come to you.”
John 20;21-22 “He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. [Mean with His own Godly Authority and Powers] When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost”
John 17:14-20 “I have given them thy word, and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world; as I also am not of the world. I pray not that thou shouldst take them out of the world, but that thou shouldst keep them from evil. They are not of the world, as I also am not of the world. Sanctify them in truth. Thy word is truth. As thou hast sent me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. And for them do I sanctify myself, [GIVE MYSELF AS THEIR WARRANTY] that they also may be sanctified in truth. And not for them only do I pray, but for them also who through their word shall believe in me”
Next: The issue of bible reading.
It is true that prior to Luther’s announced plan for a New Protestant / “common language” bible, that the CC taught that the bible was NOT to be read by the uniformed; un or under- educated. WHY?
2nd. Peter 3: 14 -17 “Therefore, beloved, since you wait for these, be zealous to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability
2nd. Peter 1: 16-21 “You will do well to pay attention to this as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.”
Acts 20: 28-30 Take heed to yourselves, and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops, to rule the church of God, [singular] which he hath purchased with his own blood. I know that, after my departure, ravening wolves will enter in among you, not sparing the flock. And of your own selves shall arise men speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Douay Rheims Bible
One can, in hindsight, which is often more revealing than the decision made at the time, look at what has happened within the Protestant churches where there are VERY many differing views, position and understandings accepted, and taught on the same identical passages, when “ Only One POSSIBLE, Truth can exist.
Keep in mind also this mandate predated the “period of enlightenment” which was only dawning at the time.
John 10:16 “And other sheep I have, that are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice, and there shall be one fold and one shepherd”
Eph. 2: 20-23 “Built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone
: In whom all the building, [singular] being framed together, groweth up into an holy temple in the Lord. [singular] In whom you also are built together into an habitation of God in the Spirit.”
Psalms 127:1 “Unless the Lord builds the house, those who build it labor in vain. Unless the Lord watches over the city, the watchman stays awake in vain.”
Luke 10:16 “He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”
Eph.3: 9 to 12 “And to make all men see what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things; that through the church [SINGULAR: meaning THE CATHOLIC Church] the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places. This was according to the eternal purpose which he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have boldness and confidence of access through our faith in him
Matthew 4:4 “Who answered and said: It is written, Not in bread alone doth man live, but in every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God”
Matt.13:9-12 “He who has ears, let him hear.” Then the disciples came and said to him, “Why do you speak to them in parables?” And he answered them, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.” For to him who has will more be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away. “
If one reviews the biblical facts, one can determine God’s Will being defined as:
One God [Triune] Good and Perfect
Holding Only One set of Faith beliefs , in both the Old and New Testament times. God simply cannot as a Moral and Theological impossibility, hold different views [many even contradictory], on long defined issues.
And Only One Chosen people: in the OT and under the Old Covenant; The Jewish nation; and later expanded to ALL of His One set of Faith believers throughout the Entire world, in and under the New Covenant. … Mark 16:14-15: “At length he appeared to the eleven [Apostles] as they were at table: and he upbraided them with their incredulity and hardness of heart, because they did not believe them who had seen him after he was risen again. And he said to them: Go ye into the whole world, and preach the gospel to every creature. And again in Matthew 28:16-20 “And the eleven disciples [Apostles] went into Galilee, unto the mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.”
If your still doubtful about this, may I suggest you READ Matthew 10: 1-8; John 14: 16-17; John 20:21-22. This expansion mentioned in the above two references, compared to Matthew 10: 8-10, to NOW and forever include the entire world; indicated Christ having Himself instituted papal succession. [Yes I know the term “pope is not in the bible; but then again neither is the term ‘bible” in the Bible.]
Eph. 4: 1-7 “I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called, with all lowliness and meekness, with patience, forbearing one another in love, eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift.
Lastly: Your final comment has proven to be true
. It is also Spiritual Suicide for countless souls. And this is no less true today, than in the period of the Protestant revolution. Christ ONLY founded One New Faith and One new Church. Easily provable within the Bible itself. Therefore what the Catholic Church has always, with consistency, convection, and Guarded and warranted by the Holy Spirit and Christ personally, relating to what ACTUALLY IS essential for ones POSSIBLE and very conditional salvation; along with the very key’s to heavens access [Mt. 16:15-19], remain exactly where God placed them, and wants them to be. In today’s Catholic church[s].
Because one “can” has never meant that one “SHOULD.” Human nature is weak; deformed, an seeks naturally an easier way; a short cut. What di Christ say about the Narrow gate?
Matthew 7:11-15 “If you then being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children: how much more will your Father who is in heaven, give good things to them that ask him? All things therefore whatsoever you would that men should do to you, do you also to them. For this is the law and the prophets. Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat. How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it! Beware of false prophets, who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.” END QUOTE
Christ founded only One church and one set of Faith beliefs. A historically and biblically provable fact. This was about 2,000 years ago and the CC is still the largest Christian religion in the world. Despite her many defectors and detractors.
So my FRIEND, who founded your church; and when?