A Provocative POST Response in Christian Charity
As a FYI to sort of set up this post, I’m occasionally active on a Christian Forum; used mainly by non-catholic-Christians.
Recently I entered into a debate on “when the Sabbath” day ought to be?
In my post I attempted in the limited space permitted, to point out Christ Devine Will for One God; One Faith and One Church, giving [Mt. 15:15-19 & Eph. 2:4-8] as evidence. I spoke of “the key’s” to heavens access being entrusted to Peter.
Below is the response I received and my REPLY to it.
[QUOTE]Peter, oh yes I remember him. He was the ONLY person who was ever called Satan in the entire Bible and called that by none other than God the Son. Impressive I must say, and then you say a church was founded on him? It sounds to me like founding a church on a guy called Satan is not a good idea especially when he is a sinner just like the rest of us. I am going to stay away from that church.
This is the same Peter who wrote a whopping two books of the NT, TWO whole books, WOW. Paul wrote 13 which is almost 32% of the entire NT. Show me where Peter ever claimed to be the chief among the apostles? Where did he claim to be the number one apostle. Show me where he is called the super-apostle. Just because he is listed first in the two times where the apostles are named means nothing after all SOMEONE had to be listed first.[/QUOTE]
I can provide a biblical accounting of 50 “Peter FIRST”. Space prohibits me doing so here. May I suggest you read carefully Mt.16:
I’m duly impressed with your bible content knowledge. I fear however that it’s not supported by right understanding. Please permit me to demonstrate this with the two examples you gave.
Rom. 13:10 “The love of our neighbour worketh no evil. Love therefore is the fulfilling of the law” John 13:35 “By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, if you have love one for another.” Friend; lets play nice. And I will tie this in to your Sabbath discussion.
[BIG smile here]
Very good! You do Know your bible. And I suspect you would agree with this definition of Jesus? “Jesus/ God is ALL Good things perfected.”
Your well chosen point; in the reflected light of a necessarily “Good and perfect God” prompts the necessary question: [caps for emphasis not shouting]
Is a Partial Truth equal In Every Way to the Entire Truth [which must be singular]? No, it is not.
When we return your passage to its original context; the clarity of Christ comment becomes more clear, and a vastly different lesson emerges. It is paraphrasing what Christ DID SAY to Satan when He; Christ was tempted in the desert.
Mt. 4:10 below. In verses 21-22 Christ had just revealed that he MUST Suffer; Die and rise again on the 3 td. Day. V.21-22 “From that time Jesus began to shew to his disciples, that he must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the ancients and scribes and chief priests, and be put to death, and the third day rise again. And Peter taking him, began to rebuke him, saying: Lord, be it far from thee, this shall not be unto thee”
Peters message here is one of love and compassion. He had just proclaimed
[inspired by God the Father v.17; that Christ WAS/ IS God!] He was saying “YOUR GOD! YOU CAN CHANGE THIS” and Christ in effect tells Peter that this is why He choose to become Incarnate.
Matt. 4:10“Then Jesus saith to him: Begone, Satan: for it is written, The Lord thy God shalt thou adore, and him only shalt thou serve” … Matt. 16:23 “Who turning, said to Peter: Go behind me, Satan, thou art a scandal unto me: because thou savourest not the things that are of God, but the things that are of men”
Matt. 16:21-22; 23 “From that time Jesus began to shew to his disciples, that he must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the ancients and scribes and chief priests, and be put to death, and the third day rise again. And Peter taking him, began to rebuke him, saying: Lord, be it far from thee, this shall not be unto thee” v23: Who turning, said to Peter: Go behind me, Satan, thou art a scandal unto me: because thou savourest not the things that are of God, but the things that are of men”
John 12:46 “I am come a light into the world; that whosoever believeth in me, may not remain in darkness” John 18:37 Pilate therefore said to him: Art thou a king then? Jesus answered: Thou sayest that I am a king. For this was I born, and for this came I into the world; that I should give testimony to the truth. Every one that is of the truth, heareth my voice. John 16:28I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again I leave the world, and I go to the Father.
1 Tim. 1:15 A faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into this world to save sinners, of whom I am the chief”
Romans 1:25 Jesus speaking “Who changed the truth of God into a lie; and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen”
Acts 20: 28-30 “Take heed to yourselves, and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops, to rule the church of God, [singular] which he hath purchased with his own blood. I know that, after my departure, ravening wolves will enter in among you, not sparing the flock. And of your own selves shall arise men speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Douay Rheims Bible
John 17: 12-22 “While I was with them, I kept them in thy name. Those whom thou gavest me have I kept; and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition, [Judas] that the scripture may be fulfilled. I pray not that thou shouldst take them out of the world, but that thou shouldst keep them from evil. .. Sanctify them in truth. Thy word is truth. As thou hast sent me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. And for them do I sanctify myself, that they also may be sanctified in truth. [HERE JESUS GIVES HIMSELF AS THE WARRANTY OF CATHOLIC TEACHINGS ON ALL Faith & Moral issues] And not for them only do I pray, but for them also who through their word shall believe in me; That they all may be one, as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee; that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou hast given me, I have given to them; that they may be one, as we also are one”
John 21:14-17 “This is now the third time that Jesus was manifested to his disciples, [Apostles] after he was risen from the dead. When therefore they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter: Simon, lovest thou me more than these? He saith to him: Yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith to him: Feed my lambs. He saith to him again: Simon, lovest thou me? He saith to him: Yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith to him: Feed my lambs. Jesus said to him the third time: Simon, son lovest thou me? Peter was grieved, because he had said to him the third time: Lovest thou me? And he said to him: Lord, thou knowest all things: thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus said to him: Feed my sheep.
John 10:16 “And other sheep I have, that are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice, and there shall be one fold and one shepherd”
Eph. 2: 20-23 “Built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone
: In whom all the building, [singular] being framed together, groweth up into an holy temple in the Lord. [singular] In whom you also are built together into an habitation of God in the Spirit.”
Tying into the Sabbath debate
As I attempted to do in my previous post; it is clearly biblical and Christ desire for only one God; One set of faith believes and One church. In handing “the key’s to The KINGDOM of God”; entrusting them to Peter; our Good and Perfect God could not error. Jesus HAD TO then provide Peter with the necessary means to Govern this New one Church; which IS indicated in the unlimited Powers and Authority granted in
verse 19. The power to “bind and Loose,” which has 2 meanings; the first of which is Power to make laws and to void laws. It was a COMMON Rabbinical & enforceable at Jewish Law granted to the “keeper of the key’s for walled in cites” [as Jerusalem was]; and this person reported ONLY to the “king.”
Devine Worship is commanded in the First Commandment
Sabbath Observance is extensively covered In Exodus chapter 16 and other places.0
Exodus 16:30 “And the people kept the Sabbath on the seventh day?
What some fail to acknowledge is that the “B.C” Before Christ / AD ”After Death” Calendar, used throughout the world today, did not come into existence until around 1582 [AD]. So the seventh day was in a bit of flux. What is important to God IS NOT the day of the WEEK; but the Observance a set DAY EACH WEEK; set aside for Worship and Rest.
God Bless you. May I ask are you a Baptist or Fundamentalist Christian?