[QUOTE] The Father – God the Father who is in Heaven
The Son – Jesus Christ who is now seated at the Right Hand of the Father
The Holy Spirit – Sent from God into your body to help guide you and lead you down the path Christ laid out for you. This is the Trinity. How can the Eucharist given by the priest, overpower the Holy Spirit given by Christ?[/QUOTE]
You lack my friend, a full and correct understanding. Allow me please, to assist you.
The Eucharist; “the Real Presence of Christ” is;
FROM God the Father
OF God the Son [Jesus]
BY the Holy Spirit
These three comprise the Blessed Trinity Mt. 28:19-20. And they are “one each”; EACH Co-Equal and Co-Eternal. The Miracle of the Eucharist is actually TWO back to back Miracles. 1. The Priest [“Persona Christi” or in the “Person of Christ”] is actually; instantly and temporally while the Consecration takes Place; turned into is a real-sense”; “Another Christ” through whom the second Miracle takes place: Making Jesus; “Really’ Truly and Substanually [all of Him] Present to us. There is no “over-powering and it is the one and SAME Holy Spirit; and the One and the same Jesus. That is why it is the Divine Mystery.
[QUOTE] Why would Christ want to come to us in bread in wine when He lives in us as the Holy Spirit.”[/QUOTE]
Consider it this way: If I had a $1,000.00 bill in my hand. Would you rather I just show it to you or GIVE IT to you? That dear friend is kind of the difference. In addition to FIVE Eucharistic passages: Mt.26; Mk. 14. ; Luke 22; John 6 and 1st Cor. 11; READ Mt. 28:20.Those final words are thee FINAL WORDS of Jesus just moments before He ASSENDED back into heaven.
By being “Really” Present not only “to us” BUT “IN-US” Jesus Himself becomes the GREATEST possible [in quality and quantity ] of grace available to humanity; because it is Literally God Himself. As we Consume God Worthily; God Himself comes into God; while at the same time we share “IN GOD HIMSELF.”
[QUOTE]The Breaking of the bread is the representation of the ultimate sacrifice of Christ death on the cross. And eating of the bread and wine should serve as a reminder that Christ lives in us as the Holy Spirit[/QUOTE]
No, no my friend: READ THE ACTUAL WORDS:
May I be frank? Your understanding expresses the alternations and aberrations to the singular truth Spoken by Jesus Himself and FIVE different NT authors of the Bible; THREE of who are Personal witness to this Commanded Miracle; and FOUR of whom were Martyred in heinous ways for this belief.
John 5:[RSV] 3-36-38 ““But the testimony which I have is greater than that of John; for the works which the Father has granted me to accomplish, these very works which I am doing, bear me witness that the Father has sent me. And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness to me. His voice you have never heard, his form you have never seen; and you do not have his word abiding in you, for you do not believe him whom he has sent.”
Matthew 26: 26-28 “And whilst they were at supper, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke: and gave to his disciples, and said: Take ye, and eat.
This is my body. And taking the chalice, he gave thanks, and gave to them, saying: Drink ye all of this. For this is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many unto remission of sins.
MARK 14: 22-24 “And whilst they were eating, Jesus took bread; and blessing, broke, and gave to them, and said Take ye. This is my body. And having taken the chalice, giving thanks, he gave it to them. And they all drank of it. And he said to them: This is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many.
MARK 14: 22-24 “And whilst they were eating, Jesus took bread; and blessing, broke, and gave to them, and said: Take ye. This is my body. And having taken the chalice, giving thanks, he gave it to them. And they all drank of it. And he said to them: This is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many.[ NOTE: A Covenant cannot be ratified by a mere symbol; it REQUIRES BLOOD!]
Luke 22: 19-21″And taking bread, he [GOD] gave thanks, and brake; and gave to them, saying: This is my body, which is given for you. Do this for a commemoration of me. In like manner the chalice also, after he had supped, saying: This is the chalice, the new testament in my blood, which shall be shed for you.
Paul 1 Cor.11: 23-29 “For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus, the same night in which he was betrayed, took bread. And giving thanks, broke, and said: Take Ye, and eat: this is my body, which shall be delivered for you: this do for the commemoration of me. In like manner also the chalice, after he had supped, saying: This chalice is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as often as you shall drink, for the commemoration of me. For as often as you shall eat this bread, and drink the chalice, you shall show the death of the Lord, until he come. Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord. But let a man prove himself: [to be worthy of the privilege] and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of the chalice. For he that eats and drinks unworthily, eats and drinks judgment to himself”
John from Chapter 6: 47-57 “Amen, amen I say unto you: He that believeth in me, hath everlasting life.
I am the bread of life. I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever; and the bread that I will give, is my flesh, for the life of the world. The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying: How can this man give us his flesh to eat? Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen [MEANS; TRULY; TRULY] I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. He that eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. He that eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, abides in me, and I in him”
NO WHERE DOES IT SAY; OR EVEN IMPLY THAT JESUS IS ONLY GIVING A ‘SIGN; OR A MERE SYMBOL!
[QUOTE] Our bodies are temples. With this reminder, we have then invited the Holy Spirit to guide us! At the last supper, Christ was not literally saying He was the bread and wine. If that were the case the trinity would be the Father, the Son, the Eucharist (only available at church)[/QUOTE]
Woops; there ya go again; and your still missing the SINGULAR truth. I have shared the actual WORDS of GOD HIMSELF and Five Apostles; PLEASE SHOW ME WHERE IT EXPRESSLY say’s that these are mere signs or symbols. YOU CAN’T [EMPHAISIS not SHOUTING]; BECAUSE IT’S A FALES UNDERSTANDING. GOOGLE “EUCHARISTIC MIRACLES” [caps 4 emphasis not shouting]
Further what YOU non-catholics receive IS ONLY a sign or symbol; what we catholics receive is EXACTLY what Christ SAID; Promised and DELIVERS.
[QUOTE] I’m afraid the Church has taken it out of context. We have taken away from the true sacrifice of Christ, a one time event, if we think the sacrifice at Mass is greater. Jesus made it already. It is Finished. [/QUOTE]
Having been Trained; Tested; Experienced and Certified to Teach our Catholic Faith for nearly 20 years now; I’m no longer surprised at your views. BUT THAT SAID: How One misunderstanding LEADS to a multitude of “man-made-up beliefs”; contradicting the very WORDS of GOD HIMSELF; still astounds me. [There would be a lot of smiles in this post if I were permitted to add them. Have not reached 50 Post yet.
It’s too profound to explain in greater details BUT what happens at EVERY MASS is a “re-presentation” MEANING actually; really; factually a re-presentation of the VERY ONE and same sacrifice of Calvary; Again and Again: [it’s a Mystery concealed within a Miracle] Christ Can and DOES only One Time: BUT God CAN do ANY Good thing! Amen! … ?????
[QUOTE] We shall do it only in remembrance of the true sacrifice[/QUOTE].
- READ the passages I provide; EVEN in your “man- modified] KJ Bible. Where do the WORDS say or even-imply your position? They simply do not. ASK the identical question about Catholic belief and practice and GET FIVE CLEAR: CONCISE and Precise references. Which dear friend is more credible?
- [QUOTE] Jesus sacrificed Himself for all men [/QUOTE]
- He knew and expected ONLY a FEW to meet ALL OF THE NECESSARY Conditions; to ACCEPT HIS version of the truth. Mt. 26:28 above; Mt. 14: 24 also above. Recall also the story of the “Narrow Gate”
Matthew 7:13 “Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat“.
[QUOTE] If the Eucharist truly was Jesus, He would also want to available to All men.[/QUOTE]
No again [another smile]. Here’s why. God is Perfect and those who receive Him MUST do so w/o sin; [thus in a manner “perfected] and Certainly w/0 Mortal sin 1st. John5:16-17; and “Lesser venial sins 1st. John 1:8-10; are forgiven at the from part of the Mass by the “Act of Contrition” which can through the Powers of the Key’s in the CC; BUT NOT Mortal sins which MUST BE CONFESSED John 20:19-23
Matt.5: 48 “You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Matt.19:21 Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” John.17:23 “I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me.” : Rom.12: 2 “Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect”
2 Timothy 3:17 “That the man of God may be perfect, furnished to every good work.”Ephesians 6:13 “Therefore take unto you the armor of God, that you may be able to resist in the evil day, and to stand in all things perfect.”
[QUOTE]He did not make people put their hands a certain way or be an elite group. He made Himself available to all who believed in Him[/QUOTE]
Consider this LOGICAL FACT; if you permit it to be?
We believe in Only One God right? RIGHT!
God is Perfect as God MUST be right? Right.
Then dear friend explain to me please; how one Perfect God can hold contradicting positions of the very same well defined issues????? Positions BTW that only changed when the Protestant revolution came to be [actually Henry the VIII had some earlier]… This is a MORAL and a Theologically IMPOSSIBILITY for our Perfect God.
As a FYI: I have a very Active Internet Ministry; but can’t yet post my URL. How ever
know that I can and do have Lessons that explain each of these points if FAR greater detail, that I can POST for you if you desire and IF I’m permitted to do do. They tend to be quite long.
[QUOTE] So do you still consider me Catholic if this is what I believe?[/QUOTE]
No; fraid not. [another smile]. Truth is SINGULAR. One per Issue. Next to the Bible my favorite Author is the Late Archbishop Fulton Sheen. His Book “The Life of Christ” is AWESOME! His Excellency said this about truth:
“Even if nobody accepts THEE truth; the “truth” remains THEE Truth; AND even if everybody believes a LIE; it still remains a LIE.”
And Pope Benedict on the very day He became our 266th POPE said this:
“There CANNOT be your truth and my truth” because then their would be NO TRUTH.”
There is very much more I can add and prove; but SPACE….
God Bless you;