a New Apologetics series lesson #4 &#5 Combined



New Apologetics Series Lesson #4 & 5 by Pat Miron

For several reasons I am combing Lesson’s #4 and #5 Questions together. 

They on one and the same topic and show with shocking clarity what can happen with misunderstanding a single passage; a critical Lesson that must be learned. What’s starts as a “snowball” quickly becomes a “snowman.”

Q#16. Did Christ personally, at any time or place say to anyone, He That is Baptized not shall be damned?

In responding to any of these Q’s if the author is seeking his specific language the answer is no. But if he is a seeker of singular truth; then very clearly the answer is YES. It occurs to me that the terms “bible and protestant” do not appear in those precise terms either; yet who would deny their existence?

Matthew 28:18-20 “And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.”

Obviously, God had a reason shortly before He departed from their midst for issuing this command. And in John 3:3-5 one finds that reason clearly addressed …  “Jesus answered, and said to him: Amen, amen [TRULY; Truly] I say to thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.  Nicodemus saith to him: How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb, and be born again? Jesus answered: Amen, amen I [God] say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

For the sake of impartial clarity; here are both Matthews Henry’s  Protestant  and Haydock’s Catholic commentary of this passage.


. “We are not to marvel at this; for, when we consider the holiness of God, the depravity of our nature, and the happiness set before us, we shall not think it strange that so much stress is laid upon this. The regenerating work of the Holy Spirit is compared to water. It is also probable that Christ had reference to the ordinance of baptism. Not that all those, and those only, that are baptized, are saved; but without that new birth which is wrought by the Spirit, and signified by baptism, none shall be subjects of the kingdom of heaven. End   http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/matthew-henry-concise/john/3.html


Ver. 5. Unless a man be born again of water, and the Holy Ghost. Though the word Holy be now wanting in all Greek copies, it is certainly the sense. The ancient Fathers, and particularly St. Augustine in divers places, from these words, prove the necessity of giving baptism to infants: and by Christ’s adding water, is excluded a metaphorical baptism. See also Acts viii. 36. and x. 47. and Titus iii. 5. (Witham) — Except a man be born again. That is, unless you are born again by a spiritual regeneration in God, all the knowledge which you learn from me, will not be spiritual but carnal. But I say to you, that neither you nor any other person, unless you be born again in God, can understand or conceive the glory which is in me. (St. Chrysostom)” End Quote


So it seems quite evident the message Christ; that our Perfect God is sharing IS: No Baptism Means “no access to heaven.” Therefore the only remaining alternative is eternal Damnation.

Q# 17 Is that Statement: HE THAT IS BAPTIZED NOT SHALL BE DAMNED, to be found anywhere in the Bible? If so . . . Where????

John 3:3-5

Q# 18 Do you and your brethren, self-styled CHURCH OF CHRIST, not preach and teach, in word, precept and effect, that “HE THAT IS BAPTIZED NOT SHALL BE DAMNED”?

This I don’t know.  What I do know is that Christ Himself expresses clearly: no entry into heaven without First a Christian Baptism.

Q#19 Do you not further pollute your own imaginary scripture by inserting TWO imaginary requirements: (1) That it must be administered by a Church of Christ preacher, and (2) that when the candidate goes under the water, he MUST BELIEVE that act is for OR IN ORDER TO THE REMISSION OF HIS SINS????

NO and NO. Not in the Catholic Church, for as Haydock say’s there is NO exclusion of infants. 

Acts Of Apostles 22:16 “And now why tarriest thou? Rise up, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, invoking his name.” 

Mark 16:16 “He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be condemnedThis refers to adult Baptism. One must have Faith and Know God; before worthy reception of any sacrament; however this does not preclude or exclude the Baptism of Infants. 

Acts Of Apostles 2:38 “But Peter said to them: Do penance, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” 

Acts Of Apostles 16:15 “And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying: If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.” 

Acts Of Apostles 16:33 “And he, taking them the same hour of the night, washed their stripes, and himself was baptized, and all his house immediately. 

1 Corinthians 1:16And I [Paul] baptized also the household of Stephanus; besides, I know not whether I baptized any other” 

1 Corinthians 12:13For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, [One Church/ One Faith] whether Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or free; and in one Spirit we have all been made to drink” Galatians 3:27 “For as many of you as have been baptized in Christ, have put on Christ.”

The positions held by various protestant communions is frankly puzzling on this issue as well as some others that too are clearly expressed. The exclusion of “Infants” [I’ve not seen an age applied?] is foolish and unbiblical. Christ says “All” and All  [here] means everyone.

Why? because SOULS are infused by God at the instant of conception. And each and every soul [Except for Mary the Mother of God] bears the mark and stain of Original Sin. A BLOCK to attaining Heaven. Baptism alone can remove this sin. Just as under the Old Testament the act of Circumcision accomplished this task. Therefore unbaptized infants are unnecessarily put at risk of not having access to heaven, if not Baptized.

Ahh, you say circumcision was then necessary? Yes it was. “Well women can’t and were not circumcised.” This line of thought attempts to limit the Power of God to do good. Because of the [unknown today] position of men in the culture; their circumcision  was counted as sufficient for all of the women within the family.

Q# 20  Do you not reject Baptist Baptism because of the absence of these two points????

Certainly NOT! Not if heaven is ones life-goal.

Q #21 Since you and your brethren ADMITTEDLY preach and teach the above doctrine, in word and deed, and since such statement can not be found in the Scriptures. He That is Baptized not shall be damned, Is it NOT TRUE that you teach a doctrine that IS NOT in the Scriptures?

Our friend is the one who does not KNOW the bible. This has been clearly shown to be an untrue statement and a dangerously incorrect understanding.

Q #22. You, furthermore, proclaim, your motto: Where the Bible speaks we speak, where the Bible is silent, we are silent: WHY DON’T YOU REMAIN SILENT ON ABOVE DOCTRINE”. “He that is Baptized not shall be damned”, BE SILENT, SUCH statement is NOT IN THE BIBLE.

Matthew 28:18-20 “And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.”  John 3:5 Jesus answered, and said to him: Amen, amen [TRULY; truly] I say to thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Q #23. Since your entire approach is builded on an imaginary scripture which does not exist, your every effort is made to twist other scriptures and compel THEM to MEAN your Imaginary Scripture. NOW IS THIS STATEMENT FOUND IN THE BIBLE: “He that believeth not shall be damned”? Baptists preach that exactly as listed. DO BAPTISTS PREACH WHAT IS IN THE BIBLE?

It would seem more so than does the author. But His point is nevertheless valid. The truth [always only a single prerogative] REST with the KEY”S to heaven

Mt.16:18-19, not in the words; so much as the actual intended meaning of those words.

1 Sam. 6:6 “Why do you harden your hearts, as Egypt and Pharao hardened their hearts? did not he, after he was struck, then let them go, and they departed? 2 Chronicles 30:8
Harden not your necks, as your fathers did: yield yourselves to the Lord, and come to his sanctuary, which he hath sanctified for ever: serve the Lord the God of your fathers, and the wrath of his indignation shall be turned away from you. Psalms 94:8 Today if you shall hear his voice, harden not your hearts” Hebrews 3:15While it is said, Today if you shall hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in that provocation.” 

Luke 11:28But he [Christ] said: Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God, and keep it” …. AMEN!

Proverbs 30:5-6  Every word of God is tested;he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Add nothing to his words, lest he reprimand you, and you be proved a liar.

Mark 7:13 “Making void the word of God by your own tradition, which you have given forth. And many other such like things you do.”

Mark 16:14-15  & Mt. 28:18-20 “At length he [Jesus] appeared to the eleven as they were at table: and he upbraided them with their incredulity and hardness of heart, because they did not believe them who had seen him after he was risen again. And he said to them: Go ye into the whole world, and preach the gospel to every creature.” & “And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth.  Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.”

Q #24 . Is there an instance in the Bible where a sinner was saved without Baptism? Acts 15:9; Luke 7:48; I John 5:4; Acts 26:18; Eph. 1:11-13.

Acts 15:9 “[8] “And God, who knoweth the hearts, gave testimony, giving unto them the Holy Ghost, as well as to us; [9] And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith”. … MEANS: Permitted them to Know God. It does not claim to be sufficient onto salvation; which requires among other things, Christian Baptism.

Luke 7:48 [added verses 46-47] “My head with oil thou didst not anoint; but she with ointment hath anointed my feet. Wherefore I say to thee: Many sins are forgiven her, because she hath loved much. But to whom less is forgiven, he loveth less. And he said to her: Thy sins are forgiven thee.” The incorrect understanding here is what God can do and what God Ordains to BE DONE according to His Divine and Perfect Will. God can do any good thing. Amen! God also can Command, Ordain, and Mandate as HE WILLS. We must not error by confusing the two, or assume that one takes precedence over the other. Both reflect God’s Perfect Will. One for the “instant at hand**; the other until the end of time.

** The Instant at hand presumes a Baptism of Desire [Love] which God alone can Judge to accept.

The “end of time mandate” applies equally to all as the manner Christ will accept for the forgiveness of sin.

John 20: 21-23** He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained. [By God in heaven]

Act 26:18 “open their eyes, that they may be converted from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and a lot among the saints, by the faith that is in me.” MEANS: To have “faith” in God; requires that one accept, live and practice ALL that God teaches and requires. Not culled passages to make an personal opinion seem to have authority.

Eph. 1: 11-13 “In whom we also are called by lot, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things according to the counsel of his will. That we may be unto the praise of his glory, we who before hoped Christ: In whom you also, after you had heard the word of truth, (the gospel of your salvation;) in whom also believing, you were signed with the holy Spirit of promise.” MEANS: Predestination here means “foreknowledge of”; not selectively chosen by God for salvation. Such a position is impossible for our “Good and Perfect God” and ignores the manner in which man alone is made in the image of God. Gen. 1:26-27 Man alone has a mind, intellect and FREEWILL as permanent parts of our souls; so that we can freely choose to love or to hate God. These like God are both Spiritual and eternal gifts. [See Isaiah 43: 7 &21] “foreknowledge is neither cause nor effects” man’s own choices. Take note of the conditional clause: “according to the counsel of His Will.” GOD CANNOT HOLD CONTRADICTORY POSITIONS ON THE SAME ISSUES.

Eph. 4:2-5 “With all humility and mildness, with patience, supporting one another in charity. Careful to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. One body [MEANS ONLY ONE CHURCH] and one Spirit; [MEANS ONE SET OF BELIEFS] as you are called in one hope of your calling. One Lord, one faith, [ONLY ONE SET OF RELIGIOUS BELIEFS] one baptism [WITH WATER AND IN THE NAME OF THE TRINITY]

Q #25. Is Baptism a command to and for the Saved or Unsaved? Which? Remember there is only ONE BAPTISM !

Actually both because it is for ALL who desire to merit Salvation and is an essential part of ones salvation path.

God Bless, Pat Miron


Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s