a New Series on Apologetisc Lesson 3B


To my dear friends in Christ,

I’m inserting this discussion as part of our ongoing Apologetics Lessons. Taken from a conversation with a very well presented and profound questions on the CAF Public Forum. Pat Miron

Hi ??

Asking for forgiveness is certainly a part of the necessary process God Ordains in both the OT and the NT.

Lev. 5 and 6; Jn. 20: 21-23.

Venial sins for us Catholics are forgiven at every Mass. And a good and sincere “Act of Contrition” can too remove them.  It’s the Mortal Sins which is clearly Biblical even in the KJ Bible that only the very foolish make light of, or pretend don’t exist

RSV bible : 1 John 5:16-17  If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

KJV 16-17   1 John 5:16-17 “If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask , and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.”

[QUOTE]If God is a JUST & FAIR God, then is He not also obligated to punish every sin not redeemed by asking for His forgiveness?[/QUOTE]

Yes but not identically

; that is being “unfair”. A Just God can’t punish a kid stealing a candy bar the exact same way as a person supporting abortion. God gives to man alone the ability to know the difference & to freely choose the difference between right & wrong. Only man has a mind, intellect and FREEWILL attached to our Souls. God must allow us to use them; and then judge us according to our own choices.

Rom. 2:6 “Who will render to every man according to his works.”

[QUOTE]If God cannot be in the presence of imperfection, and venial sin is still imperfection, then if we die before having our venial sins forgiven, then where can we go but Hell?[/QUOTE]

Hello Purgatory!

Rev. 21:27, Mt. 5:26

[QUOTE]I don’t see how your passage from John shows that we must confess our sins to a Catholic priest.[/QUOTE]

Because your not using the entire bible and connecting the precise and connecting teachings. Use this site to look up in the sequence given each of the following text.

http://www.drbo.org/ 

LOOK 4 and take note that each is Jesus and His Apostles only and exclusively.

Mt.10:1-8 [note the interchangeable disciple=apostles]

Mt. 16:15-19

Mt.18:18 expanded to all Apostles

Jn.14:16-17 filled in Jn.20:21-22

John 20:19-23*

Jn.17: 15-19

Mt. 28:16, 18-20

2 things are clear

1. Jesus commands, protects, and warrants only the apostles and through them by absolute necessity the CC in mandating “to the entire world“ Mt. 28: 19-20. [Every bible reference to “church” means the CC as no other church even existed in the entire world for 900+ years]

2. God literally GIVES to the Apostles alone His very Powers and Authority as God:

Jn.15:16

Mt.28:18

Jn.17:18-19

Jn.20:21

Lev. 5:5 “

When a man is guilty in any of these [sins] , he shall confess the sin he has committed,” [to a PRIEST]

Romans 10: 9 – 10 because, if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. [conditionally]For man believes with his heart and so is justified, and he confesses with his lips and so is saved”

Jesus is clear; precise and specific giving to the Apostles alone; following OT Traditional Practice of sin-forgiveness but now makes it PERFECT. Lev. 5 and 6

Romans 13: 1-4 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.

Acts.20: 28 “Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you [SINGULAR] overseers, to care for the church of God [SINGULAR] which he obtained with the blood of his own Son.”

John.10: 16 “And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd”

Ephesians 4:5 ” One Lord, one faith, one baptism.” MEANS

1 God

Only that 1 Gods set of Faith teachings and beliefs. A Perfect God cannot hold contradictory views on the same issue

And 1 baptism in water with the HS.

[QUOTE] There is a place for confessing our sins to one another, no doubt. But that passage says nothing about a Priest or any other religious official.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]If we have to confess to a Catholic Priest, what happened to all the people who died between the resurrection and the establishment of the Catholic church?[/QUOTE]

The Apostles and those Ordained by them were Catholic Bishops & Priest. [NOTE also please how this teaching from the Catholic Catechism applies to them.

846 “How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it. End Quote

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience – those too may achieve eternal salvation. End Quote.

Plus do not overlook the Effects of Baptism and its complete removal of ALL sins and the Temporal punishment due to them UP TO the point of being Baptized. Baptism of Desire and or Blood would account for lack of the normal form.

Clearly the Power and the mandate is to ONLY the Apostles and through them the CC. AND it requires everyone’s obedience.

[QUOTE] And you may say that the Catholic church was the original church established by Jesus so there was no time between. Even if we take that to be true (a step I’m not prepared to take), He certainly never defined just who can be a Priest[/QUOTE]

Sure He did. Jn.15:16 “You have not chosen me: but I have chosen you; and have appointed you, that you should go, and should bring forth fruit; and your fruit should remain: that whatsoever you shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you”

John 20:18-23 “Mary Magdalen cometh, and tell the disciples: SEE Mt. 10:2*- 5

”disciple and Apostle” used interchangeably]  I have seen the Lord, and these things he said to me. Now when it was late that same day, the first of the week, and the doors were shut, where the disciples were gathered together, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them: Peace be to you. And when he had said this, he shewed them [The Apostles see v 24] his hands and his side. The disciples therefore were glad, when they saw the Lord. ..Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you.  When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. [See Jn 14:16-17] [v23] Whose sins you [SINGULAR] shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you [SINGULAR] shall retain, they are retained.”

Jesus is clear; precise and specific giving to the Apostles alone; following OT Traditional Practice of sin-forgiveness but now makes it PERFECT. Lev. 5 and 6

Romans 13: 1-4 “Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.

[QUOTE]There is a place for confessing our sins to one another, no doubt. But that passage says nothing about a Priest or any other religious official.[/QUOTE]

NOTE  verse John 20: 23 is limited precisely to “YOU” SINGULAR.

[QUOTE] If we have to confess to a Catholic Priest, what happened to all the people who died between the resurrection and the establishment of the Catholic church?[/QUOTE]

Sorry; but there is NO “if?”

[QUOTE] And you may say that the Catholic church was the original church established by Jesus so there was no time between. Even if we take that to be true (a step I’m not prepared to take), He certainly never defined just who can be a Priest[/QUOTE]

Sure He did. Jn.15:16 “You have not chosen me: but I have chosen you; and have appointed you, that you should go, and should bring forth fruit; and your fruit should remain: that whatsoever you shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you”

Jesus saith to them: But whom do you say that I am?

Mt. 16: 16-19 Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. And I [GOD] say to thee: [ALONE] That thou art Peter; and [ON YOU PETER] upon this rock I [GOD] will build my church, [SINGULAR] and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it And I [God.. DO!] will give to thee [PETER alone/ exclusively] the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou [YOU Peter] shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou [YOU Peter] shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven”

Christ Can’t be more specific, precise or more clear in His intent. Further NO evidence exist that this is NOT what Christ desired and accomplished. AMEN!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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