Protestant and a Catholic Answer


FROM CAF Forum:
Please help

[QUOTE] Ok. I wouldn’t necessarily call myself a catholic anymore, but I’m trying to figure out why it’s so hard for me to believe in something I was taught from a very early age and even studied fervently for a while. I’m going to list a few of the problems I have with Catholicism and even religion in general.[/QUOTE]

Ok, let’s give it a try! [Pat Miron]

[QUOTE]1. Why is Mass necessary? Now before I start getting bible passages, especially, “keep holy the Sabbath…” I’m questioning religion in general, not simply why I need to go to mass. If God created me with a sense of humor, the ability to do work, someone who’s generally not a very boring guy; why would he want or even make it necessary to sit for an hour in a church reciting monotonous prayers and terrible church music.[/QUOTE]

Taking you at your wish: I’ll simply share the Official position of the CC without backup references. Should you like them, just let me know.

What was it Christ did for three years of His Ministry? He taught by word and example. That task is precisely what has been passed on to the Apostles and His Church. It’s critical to understand that it Remains every bit as much Christ Church today as on the day that he founded it and out Peter in charge.

One does not simply absorb naturally the Teachings of Christ necessary for Ones Salvation. That is one of the two reasons [ignoring for the moment the 1st. And 2nd. Commandments which requires it]; which is the primary ministry of the CC given to it specifically by Christ Himself. The second reason is to access the fountain of sacramental Grace; that living in a secular world makes an absolute necessity to take advantage of in-order-to stay in the “State of Grace” [w/o unconfessed; unforgiven Mortal sins]; also necessary for Ones salvation.

[QUOTE] In other words, why is sitting in mass better than taking an hour out of my Sunday to do something good for someone else (grant it i generally don’t, but for arguments sake).[/QUOTE]

Because being where God REALLY is, remains far better Spiritually than where you choose to meet God. A relationship with God CAN ONLY COME ON HIS TERMS. You have to meet God FIRST on His terms to have even a slight chance of Him meeting you on yours. Either God is in charge or you are; cannot be both ways!

[QUOTE]2. Faith?? I’m a man of science. I’m in med school right now and, although I can be an idiot at times, I generally consider myself an intelligent person. I’ve seen, experienced and studied things that leave little doubt in my mind that there is SOMETHING out there, whether it be a God or just a “cosmic goodness”. BUT, if we’re talking about the God I learned about in grammar school, why is faith necessary?[/QUOTE]

You supply part of the answer yourself: even as a scientist you have discovered things you can’t, and some you NEVER will understand. Yet the existence of these realities; and there complexity ought to make any reasonable; truthful and logical person come to the conclusion you reached. The answer lies in the FACT that everything that touches God; and everything God touches has an element of LOVE attached to it. Love my friend requires absolutely and in every instance: a Mind; an Intellect, and a FREEWILL [and a soul as the animator of all life forms… even though humanities is far more complex than that.] The kicker here is that while everyone [humanity ONLY] has these attributes which can be demonstrated but not quantified; BECAUSE they are SPIRITUAL THINGS [which must come from other Spiritual-Things], means that what I choose to call GOD does exist and is GOOD.

[QUOTE] Why doesn’t God reveal himself like he supposedly did 2000 years ago and give proof to this religion. Now the problem is I’ve learned a lot about catholicism, and the more I learned the harder it was for me to believe in it’s teachings.[/QUOTE]

He has, does and shall continue to until the end of time. GOOGLE “Eucharistic Miracles.” I can provide tons of evidence, none of which it seems your willing to accept at this point? It is in the Eucharist that Christ Does make His reality present. And we are able to be FAR more intimately associated with our God then were the Apostles in Christ time of Visitation.

[QUOTE] There is a lot of arguments for why faith is necessary that make a lot of sense while you’re talking about it but not so much when you actually think on it. Would making His existence a known fact, rather than a possibility, really change the way things are. [/QUOTE]

Yes it would! ….Why would it?

There are books on this topic; but I’ll try in a few words to at least wet your appetite for truth. Consider as a scientist: There are BILLIONS of planets, stars and galaxies; but only ONE HAS BEEN PROVEN [not speculative unproven opinions] to be able to support life. That being Planet Earth. On Planet earth with HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF LIVING THINGS; Only One; humanity can be shown to have the Spiritual gifts of a mind, intellect, FREEWILL and a soul. WHY? Again there are extensive writings on the subject. But logic precludes even the slightest possibility of coincidence; or luck being the cause. Because of the complexity and power of these attributes; even skeptics ought to agree, that THERE HAS TO BE A PRECISE REASON FOR THIS HAPPENSTANCE. The reason friend is that only humanity can love and thank their CREATOR for all the Blessings bestowed on us; past; present and future. Only humanity can Love God in return and THANK GOD! Thus we incur that precise obligation.

[QUOTE] understand the test of faith, the journey, or whatever you want to call it, but it honestly seems like a joke. In reality it seems like a sick test on His part. Kind of like a “now you see me now you don’t, but you have to believe in me anyway”. And as cliche as it is for me to say, has blindly believing in anything so fully really ever been a great idea? doubting Thomas was given proof after the crucifixion. Why am I wrong to want my own proof?[/QUOTE]

It’s no-more of a joke than any scientific endeavor. Both seek truth and support of the truth. As for getting your own truth… In what way are you more worthy of this [possible but unlikely event taking place] than the hundreds of thousands; beginning with all of the Apostles except John whom they tried to boil alive; but God persevered him; who gave there very life’s belief of this God; the Eucharist and what the CC teaches. God asked them [DEMANDED] from them Faith; so why should He NOT expect it from you. Do some research of Catholic Martyrs and Eucharistic Miracles, and you’ll see that they FOUND Faith; which by the way is a GIFT FROM GOD ALONE.

[QUOTE]3. Biggest thing for me: Why is Catholicism more “right” than other forms of christianity and religions. Jehovah witnesses. maybe. if i remember correctly. Which ever religion it is, there is a some book that was written by a man who claimed was inspired by the Holy Spirit. However, this faith is wrong because….isn’t that what 4 guys from the catholic church said as well (New Testament). So what’s that about?[/QUOTE]

Finally an easy question: The Key’s to heaven ALL rest with Peter and the CC; the Only Church; Only Faith and Only New Covenant. The NT has over 100 reference to Only One Church… and that is all the world had for the first thousands years A.D. …. This is historically provable.

Phil.2: 2 “complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind.”

Eph. 4: 1-7 “I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called, with all lowliness and meekness, with patience, forbearing one another in love, eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body [WHICH MEANS ONE CHURCH] and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, one faith, [Meaning only One set of beliefs] one baptism,
one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift.

Eph. 2: 18-22 “ for through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, [SINGULAR] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord;

John.10: 16 “And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd”

John 17:18-24 “As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world.
And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth. “I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word, that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me. Father, I desire that they also, whom thou hast given me, may be with me where I am, to behold my glory which thou hast given me in thy love for me before the foundation of the world

[QUOTE]4. This may be pushing the line for this website, but i’m honestly interested and wondering. Like i said i was Catholic, i still go to mass occasionally with my girlfriend, and i’m trying to find a reason to believe again. so, Jesus. The foundation of christianity, the son of God. Everything we know about the man comes from the teachings of the aforementioned 4 guys who were “inspired by the Holy Spirit”. [/QUOTE]

Not so! All twelve [Paul included] Apostles gave there lives literally for Christ, His Church and the New Faith based on the New Covenant in Christ Blood. Again search Early Fathers on “faith.” The evidence is indisputable even by scientific standards. And while there are Four GOSPELS; there are other authors as well. St. Paul, James, Saint Peter and Jude.

[QUOTE] I know that there are some other records of the existence of A Jesus, and other religions recognize him as at least a prophet, but what we are taught and believe comes from the gospels. Today, the Church uses science to prove/disprove miracles. There wasn’t a lot of science back then to prove/disprove anything[/QUOTE]

So friend: first cause; physical laws of Nature; why a created universe; why humanity ALONE can love [provable] not speculation for the sake of supporting unbelief. Supported by secular historians; and testimonies of early fathers and early saints mean nothing? I have pulmonary hypertension: The doctors can prove that I Do have it; but can’t explain how or why. [Believe me every test known to man has been tried]….
So why does humanity in 2011 ALONE have the ability to Love; and to rationally choose good or evil?

Also part of criteria for being named a SAINT of the CC includes as a requirement miracles. Google “recent Saints” and read about the miracles even in the current scientific times that happen.

[QUOTE]5. Why the secrecy?? I read something about the writings of the pope are locked up for 70ish years before anyone can look at them. The vatican archives: if there is something you’re looking for you have to request that exact volume if you can even get that, there is no browsing or entrance.[/QUOTE]

Baloney! Your thinking FBI or Government not the CC. Type Encyclicals or “Apolostolic Letters” and you’ll get hit’s a whole lot older that you and I will ever Be; including all of them by Pope John Paul II and our present Pope; Benedict: do the search on EWTN’s Document Library and you’ll even be able to read them.

[QUOTE]6. evolution. I don’t know what the official belief is now, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that it happened. [/QUOTE]

The Official position of the CC is that one can hold the truths of evolution so long as God as Creator is given credit and acknowledged for: First Cause; the Universe; and being in complete control of what science unfolds and evolutionary truth. But can science explain the evolution of sight; of hearing of FREEWILL?

[QUOTE] This can happen in a manner of weeks, so you can imagine what can happen in a manner of millions of years. I bring this up to highlight how much the Catholic church changes it’s beliefs. at one point science was sorcery and the work of the devil. now, the Catholic church uses it in many settings. evolution was scientists trying to prove that God doesn’t exist (which it doesn’t), but if it hasn’t already, it will admit that this is what occurred soon in the future. If the Catholic church was the sole authority on our beliefs of Jesus and God 2000 years ago, what does that say about us now with all the changes made. [/QUOTE]

My dear friend you suffer from a common malignant unbelief based on a lack of right and factual position. There are ONLY TWO broad topics of Church Teachings that are proof-written by God Himself: One is all issues of religious-Faith belief and practice Two: All matters of Morals and Morality. ONLY on these two issues can the CC not be in error [absolutely impossibility]. On any and every other topic and issue; She [the CC] because she has long been a center of intellectual endeavor; and has played such a dominate role in education over the centuries; can nevertheless be wrong. Mother church has no assurance of inerrancy outside of the TWO topics as explained above. The fact that She has been wrong on scientific issues; in no way permit’s the argument that She therefore could be wrong also on Faith or Moral Issues. Such is an impossibility; because God Himself assures such is the TRUTH. This too is historically provable.

Church Doctrine and Dogma cannot be changed. Anything that is “just” a practice, can and does.

God Bless my friend, let me know if I can be of further assistance?

Pat

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