[the] Sinners Prayers and its truth?


Dear Patrick,

Thank you for the recent lessons you have sent. Here are some questions or responses I have to your lesson on salvation.

1.) “Only catholics have the certitude that comes from DOING IT GOD’S Way.” The “sinners prayer” is a lie! Created by men with ulterior motives. [send me a request for proof if you’re in doubt.]”

I would like the proof on this. I did grow up with different versions of the sinner’s prayer being necessary for salvation. I do know that the words “sinner’s prayer” are not in the Bible, but I know where some say the concept came from. They say that the concept comes from when the Pharisee and the tax collector went up to pray, and the Pharisee told God that he was thankful that he was not like other sinners; but the tax collector said to God, “Be merciful to me, a sinner.” However, I do not necessarily think that this prayer was used by the tax collector the same way that Baptists and Evangelicals use it. Could you please send me your proof?

Thank you so very much for taking me at my word. I’m delighted to be able attempt to prove to you what the Holy Spirit leads me to teach.

Friend, are you familiar with the term “Divine Providence”? It has enough meaning to write a paper on it, but our purpose today, I thought you might find in interesting to know that I’m current working on another document where I address this first issue is some detail. I’m no longer surprised when things like this happen to me, as it is not a rarity. That God provides evidence of His benevolent Love for us is almost scary. It proves once again how very much God desires to be in a personal relationship with us.

I think I’ll just send you the document. If at a future date I forget that I sent it to you already; just smile and say a pray for an old man. And one I just copied showing evidence of the origins of the ‘SINNERS PRAYER” and comments from non-Catholic Christians.

But in addition to that I will share some other source info for your review. I would appreciate knowing if I have been successful in defending what I shared so I can make adjustments if necessary.

Let’s go back to the example you gave in the NT account of the arrogant Pharisee and the HUMBLE tax-collector-sinner.

Luke 18:10-14 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, `God, I thank thee that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week, I give tithes of all that I get.’ But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, `God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for every one who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted”

Leanne here are the key points to this parable [which means a “story with a moral point” ] and as such the facts can be and are often “made-up” to highlight the Moral Message.

1. Forgiveness of sins in the OT also used Priest as was and continues to be God’s Plan and Divine Will. We’ll cover the sacrament of Confession [Instituted by Christ Himself], separately so as not to crowd the issue at hand. I’ll simply state that the Catholic practice is SOLIDLY Biblical; while the sinners prayer is contrived my mortal men.

Exod.28: 1 “Then bring near to you Aaron your brother, and his sons with him, from among the people of Israel, to serve me as priests — Aaron and Aaron’s sons, Nadab and Abi’hu, Elea’zar and Ith’amar.”

Lev.16: 21 “and Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the people of Israel, and all their transgressions, all their sins; and he shall put them upon the head of the goat, and send him away into the wilderness by the hand of a man who is in readiness.” FYI: This is the foundation for today’s “scapegoat” expression.

Num.15: 28 “And the priest shall make atonement before the LORD for the person who commits an error, when he sins unwittingly, to make atonement for him; and he shall be forgiven”

So the practice of HOW sins would be forgiven was expressly known in OT Laws. And it was the ONLY acceptable way for God, thus giving assurance to the peoples of “known forgiveness of sins.” Today in NT times the ONLY acceptable way [solidly supported by the bible] is through Christ CC and Christ priest.

2. The moral of this story by Jesus points out exactly what I said about “perfect contrition” as the ONLY other possibility for the forgiveness of sin, which requires all of these:

1. A Perfect act of Contrition 2. Firm purpose of amendment: meaning ones life actually changes in -order to with God’s help, not sin this way again 3. Applies ONLY to those NOT Never exposed to God’s truth. [IMO] this excludes most if not all on the CAF site, who do have access to God’s truth. 4. And even then One can only HOPE they have met the requirements according to God’s standards of “perfect.” The Sacrament of known forgiveness of sins was CREATED by Christ to give us that very assurance.

2.) 847
“This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience – those too may achieve eternal salvation.”

I would like to believe this is true. I was always taught that if someone was a heathen (no knowledge of the true God) that he would still be condemned to hell unless a person that does know Jesus went and shared the gospel with him. (Rom. 10. . .How shall they hear without a preacher. . .) That’s why the Baptists put such an emphasis on foreign missions. However, I always thought that it was possible that there have been people throughout time who wanted to know the true God, but had no way of knowing Him. (For example, the people that Paul preached to that had made an altar to the unknown God or the one Pharaoh in Egypt’s history that tried to change the country from polytheism to monotheism). Do you think this is so. . .that they could still go to heaven? Is there any kind of proof for this?

The answer is YES. But I’m worried that I’m flooding you with too much information to digest at one time.

So for now I’ll provide only a very brief explanation.

One of the most puzzling aspects of normal protestant teaching is the lack of discussion on the VERY NATURE of God. [And once again I have a note in front of me reminding me to write on this very topic. Divine Providence again at work.

The essential truth lies in the theology of Divine Justice. I have many times in the past used this brief description of God: “God is Every Good Thing Perfected.” This means that God can ONLY be Good and Do “good things.” {God can and does PERMIT evil, BUT can NEVER cause it. [Another separate discussion]. So then I ask: are being FAIR, Being Just “good-things?” OF COURSE THEY ARE. Therefore God MUST [in an absolute sense] be BOTH Fair and Just.

So in order for God to BE GOD, God MUST make “possible” to every human person sufficient grace to Know Him. Bush Africans, American Indians of the pre-settled America worshiped gods as did all of the clans of the OT. Thus the false gods and idols which were the scourge of the Hebrew nation as they attempted to compete with just One REAL GOD. This then is evidence of what Yahweh Promised: “I will write it on there hearts.”

Jer.31: 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.”

Heb.8: 10 “This is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

This seems to be narrowly defined. NO! It applies to All people of ALL ages. remember that NOT everything is in the Bible.[ look at the last two verses in John chapters 20 and 21]. By God’s very Nature as God this MUST be true.

Therefore God does, because God must offer opportunities to every human being ever CREATED to be saved. The ISSUE always is do WE cooperate with this “limited” opportunity or do we CHOOSE to exercise our freewill and say NO TO GOD?

God MUST judge each of us based ON WHAT HE MAKES IT POSSIBLE for us to know. What we freely choose to accept is secondary and often not relevant.

Blessings,

Love and prayers. If you still need more information, PLEASE let me know.
Pat

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